If America Never Existed

[Jack Reed]

ndrthl said:

If America had never existed, then I would have thought that the chances of Germany defeating the UK in World War II would have been much greater. The US played a key role in the solution of intra European conflicts in the XX century. The global conflicts would have had an entire different nature and solution. Would Israel have existed if the US didnt?

I thought about that too. How does this scenario sound? Germany wins World War I. There is no Treaty of Versailles, so there are no economic and political conditions that create the chaotic society that nurtures Adolf Hitler. There is no Holocaust. There is no invasion of Poland. There is no World War II, which means that there is no Cold War, which means that there probably is no arms race. Is there a modern state of Israel in this scenario?

[buddy]

^Good points Jack. Germany would've probably emerged victorious in WWI had the U.S. not intervened. The ultimate result would've likely meant that the state of Israel would not have emerged, possibly at all. Jews would've still inhabited various parts of Europe, and if pogroms and other attacks would've persisted, there simply would've been more Jewish immigration to America.

[Jack Reed]

buddy said:

^Good points Jack. Germany would've probably emerged victorious in WWI had the U.S. not intervened. The ultimate result would've likely meant that the state of Israel would not have emerged, possibly at all. Jews would've still inhabited various parts of Europe, and if pogroms and other attacks would've persisted, there simply would've been more Jewish immigration to America.

Thanks, Buddy. I think that there would be an Israel at some time in my scenario. I must admit that much of this is based on my personal religious beliefs, so I might not be objective on this particular point. You know, I wonder if Adolf Hitler would have been anything more than a faceless and nameless Austrian if there had been no Treaty of Versailles. The economic and political conditions in post-war Germany "nurtured" his evil. I doubt that he could have been used by certain forces if German society had been different. One of the scariest things to realize is that many people would have been as evil as Hitler if they had been in his place.

[wendland]

Don't forget the role of Russia in NW North America, Russia would still be in posession of Alaska, possibly the coast down to Northern California. By the 1840s, Sitka was the BUSIEST port on the Pacific after Acapulco and Valparaiso, it was eclipsed by San Francisco with the start of the Gold Rush. So, without the US, the NW part of North America would be much more Eastern Orthodox and Russified.

[buddy]

^Yes that's true. The Russians were still in the middle of their eastward expansion. So basically if no Brits would've come to establish what was to become the U.S., the French, Spaniards, and Russians would've carved up the territory that is now the U.S. Western Canada would've also likely become heavily Russified.

[Jack Reed]

wendland said:

Don't forget the role of Russia in NW North America, Russia would still be in posession of Alaska, possibly the coast down to Northern California. By the 1840s, Sitka was the BUSIEST port on the Pacific after Acapulco and Valparaiso, it was eclipsed by San Francisco with the start of the Gold Rush. So, without the US, the NW part of North America would be much more Eastern Orthodox and Russified.

I agree with that. There would be a rivalry between Canada and Russia. Canada probably would be the richest country in the Americas. It would be the powerhouse of North America.

[Jack Reed]

FYI, there was no European colonization of the area comprising the fifty states in my scenario. It wasn't limited to just the United Kingdom. France and Spain had no colonies as well. Of course, a scenario in which there was no colonization of *any* of the Americas might be interesting.

[Oldbrit]

buddy said:

^Good points Jack. Germany would've probably emerged victorious in WWI had the U.S. not intervened. The ultimate result would've likely meant that the state of Israel would not have emerged, possibly at all. Jews would've still inhabited various parts of Europe, and if pogroms and other attacks would've persisted, there simply would've been more Jewish immigration to America.

Ottoman Jews & European Zionists were already buying up & developing Palestine at the behest of the Ottoman emperor in the 19th Century. Had Germany won WW1, the Turks would have been on the winning side, no Arab revolt fomented by Lawrence of Arabia & the British FO. The Turks might have done a better job of keeping out illegal Arab immigrants and put down troublemakers more robustly - no Hebron massacre, Greater Israel.