ETHIOPIA'S PARTICIPATION IN THE SLAVE TRADE COMMER

[barre]

ahmedgran said:

posted by king

What is so strange about asking if somalis were slaves


i don't have a problem with that question but i have a problem when someone like that dodona troll tries to make my ancestors slaves and impose it as a fact just because it said arabs took slaves from the horn of africa so automaticly somali's 2 come on that's b.s

somali nomads killed arab slave traders who tried to take a member of their clan

eventually the arabs realised you can't make a housedog from a wolf so they did bussines with the somali's

nomads would kill that dirty slave trader before serving his fatass

ahmed gran relax, you are trying too hard to explain this away.
Let me start by saying anything is possible, so we should ask the right qeustions.

1.) Were somalis ever ensalved?
its is as probable as asking if any Egyptian or Morrocans were enslaved.
they are both is africa and slave trade is in africa so naturaly one would assume by this reasoning that somalis were in africa so were ensalved sometime or another.

during the wars between the muslim sultantes and the
abbysinians captured prisoners were sold into slavery.
we know this because between the 1350-1540 where there occured 5 full scale wars, thousend of POWs were shipped through somali ports.
We can assume that Somali,Adari,Afari and haddiyya muslim pows were given the same treatment.


2.)Slavery in other forms?

by the end of the lst Muslim-Christain wars of Ahmed gran fame, both the Sultanate of Adal and thr abbysinian canceled each other out millitraly and economically.
both Adal and Abbysina were exhausted and the Pagan Oromos started thier great expansion into both muslim and christian Lands.
We know that the Oromos paracticed forced assimilation
caled Gudafecha (like the Borg in Star trek) and allot of abbysinian christain tribes and Muslims tribes including somalis were swallowed whole.



Arabs were not involved in any slave trade because they couldnot and wouldnot.
It would be as absurd as asking why arab slavers did not enslave Iraqis or Northern Sudanese arabs.

I know this will not be usefull for dodona79 whos is highly emotional right now, but its directed towrds Planet Asia and the other forumers.

Islam in Somalia was spread through the port cities of Ziela and Berbera in the 7th century.
Those cities were multicultural and occupyed by Arab/Perisn and Indian traders.
Islam diffused quickly into the interior occupyed by nomadic clansmen.

In the South Cities such as Merca and Moqadishu were established by Persian and Arabs also around that time,
but there were no somalis in the area at the time.
Ony various Cushtic tribes, Oromos and Bantus.
In the 1000's Muslim somali clans invaded and conquered these Arab Colonies and have been there since.

[barre]

Also in reply to dodona79's outragous claims.

1.)Ethiopia is not 3000 years old, it is only a 100 years old.
Your map is correct Axum did expand into the sudan after the defeat of christian Meroe
but it never penetrated the south, nor reached the Awash river.
No Oromo.Gurage or Sidamo has layed eyes on this so called Axum, and have only met Amharas in the 1200's.
No Abbysinian has ever achieved control over the south until the 1880s when thansk to cheap loans and 200,000 rifles supplied by the french and Russians the balance of Power was changed and Ethiopia was born thanks to Emperor Menelik.

[Ras-Xafun]

bertrand said:

alko said:

Where does it say that SOMALIS have been enslaved you fool?

Can you prove that *NO* were ever enslaved? This fake image of "noble" warriors never enslaved is getting out of hand.

Of course no one can prove such a thing, it's quite impossible. I personally believe that there were ofcourse somali slaves during one time or another, such as in any other community that ever existed. However what is being objected here is the notion of enslavement of Somalis on a mass scale, since no one here has provided any accurate proof of this claim there is simply no reason for us to see this as worthy of account.

I would recommend you to read Unraveling Somalia; Race, Violance and the Legacy of Slavery by Catherine Besteman. This book is great if you want to understand the history of slavery in somalia in a more detailed coverage. It gives an holistic view on southern somalia and the import of slaves to that region by somalis during the 18th and 19th century and the impact it made on the contemporary somali situation.
Basically the somalis use to import slaves from bantu regions in the south such as Mozambique, Tanzania and Zambia for agricultural activities and oromos such as Boran for pastoral activities. The boran were captured by Somals themselves after conquering land, but the bantu were brought to the somalis by the Arabs. This book is very great if you want to understand the situation in southern Somalia.

However before somalis expanded south they were also involved in mass slave trade in the northern part of Somalia as the poster barre mentioned above, but this was not trade of bantu and boran, but rather abbyssinian christians and other northern oromo (mostly pagans) who were war captives, and i'm quite sure Somalis who were captured by the abyssinians were also subjugated into slavery by themselves. So i don't think anyone here denies that there ever existed Somali slaves, but saying that it was on a mass scale is just rediculas since no one so far has provided any reliable evidence for that.

Ras-Xafun

[Planet Asia]

puntlander said:

bertrand said:

Can you prove that *NO* were ever enslaved? This fake image of "noble" warriors never enslaved is getting out of hand.

Of course no one can prove such a thing, it's quite impossible. I personally believe that there were ofcourse somali slaves during one time or another, such as in any other community that ever existed. However what is being objected here is the notion of enslavement of Somalis on a mass scale, since no one here has provided any accurate proof of this claim there is simply no reason for us to see this as worthy of account.

I would recommend you to read Unraveling Somalia; Race, Violance and the Legacy of Slavery by Catherine Besteman. This book is great if you want to understand the history of slavery in somalia in a more detailed coverage. It gives an holistic view on southern somalia and the import of slaves to that region by somalis during the 18th and 19th century and the impact it made on the contemporary somali situation.
Basically the somalis use to import slaves from bantu regions in the south such as Mozambique, Tanzania and Zambia for agricultural activities and oromos such as Boran for pastoral activities. The boran were captured by Somals themselves after conquering land, but the bantu were brought to the somalis by the Arabs. This book is very great if you want to understand the situation in southern Somalia.

However before somalis expanded south they were also involved in mass slave trade in the northern part of Somalia, but this was not trade of bantu and boran, but rather abbyssinian christians and other northern oromo (mostly pagans) who were war captives, and i'm quite sure Somalis who were captured by the abyssinians were also submitted into slavery by themselves. So i don't think anyone here denies that there ever existed Somali slaves, but saying that it was on a mass scale is just rediculas since no one so far has provided any reliable evidence for that.

Ras-Xafun

Well thats a very reasonable answer, I never stated that enslavement of Somalis took place on a massive scale. basically, no one group in Africa was free from slavery.

[Dagaalyahan]

^^You mean : No one group in the WORLD was free from slavery.

[dodona79]

alko said:

bertrand said:

You have no way of confirming that so why use speculation in place of facts?

Where does it say that SOMALIS have been enslaved you fool?

www.ogaden.com/History.htm
The Abyssinians using the arms and expertise provided by the colonialists captured Harar in 1884 and started raiding Ogaden Somali villages in that area, killing the men and selling women and children as slaves.

www.dehai.org/conflict/articles/selam_ethiopia_art_of_lying.html
Muslims forced their own religious beliefs or culture on the Somalis.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Slave_Trade#Abolition
Ethiopia became the primary source to buy slaves for the Muslim world.

64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:dA6FZ_HcEG0J:www.gumii.org/oromo/colonial.html+ethiopia+sold+slaves&hl=en

64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:QvOst_KyGNAJ:www.niletrip.com/ethiopia%2520wonders.html+ethiopia+sold+slaves&hl=en

It is unseemly to speak of the horrors of the slave trade. However, it is the unfortunate reality that up until the mid 19th century the slave trade was an important source of revenue to Ethiopia. For nearly three centuries the country¡¯s primary source of export was slaves that were sold to markets all over the world. In the height of the trade numbers reached as high as 25,000 slaves a year.

[dodona79]

barre said:

Also in reply to dodona79's outragous claims.

1.)[b]Ethiopia is not 3000 years old, it is only a 100 years old.

[/b][/size]
Your map is correct Axum did expand into the sudan after the defeat of christian Meroe
but it never penetrated the south, nor reached the Awash river.
No Oromo.Gurage or Sidamo has layed eyes on this so called Axum, and have only met Amharas in the 1200's.
No Abbysinian has ever achieved control over the south until the 1880s when thansk to cheap loans and 200,000 rifles supplied by the french and Russians the balance of Power was changed and Ethiopia was born thanks to Emperor Menelik.
[/quote]

www.ethiopianhistory.com/articles.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_date_of_nationhood

[Ras-Xafun]

And how do the links you just provided contradict anything that have been said above? Maybe if you paid attention to other posters you could avoid making fool out of yourself. Your trollish behaviour appears more evident for every post you submitt.

[Ras-Xafun]

I would also like to tell that next time you quote something from a source try to atleast post the quote on its original condition.

from this link
www.dehai.org/conflict/articles/selam_ethiopia_art_of_lying.html

The original quote was;

"the HABASHA slaves, as Ethiopian slaves were commonly called by slave merchants, were not actually Ethiopians in the strict meaning of the Amhara and the Tigreans, as they came mainly from the Galla (a pejorative name the Amhara gave to the indigenous Oromos) and the Sidama areas in southern and western Ethiopia and to lesser extent the Shanqella areas that surrounds Ethiopia's proper."

And your modified quote that you posted here;

"the HABASHA slaves, as Ethiopian slaves were commonly called by slave merchants, were not actually Ethiopians in the strict meaning of the Amhara and the Tigreans, as they came mainly from the Galla (a pejorative name the Amhara gave to the indigenous Oromos) and the Sidama areas in southern and western Ethiopia and to lesser extent the Shanqella areas that surrounds Ethiopia's proper Somalia"

I haven't bothered to check your other sources, but this is just a reminder that next time you provide a source don't fool yourself to believe that people wont find it interesting to read the whole article and then end up stumbling on your fraud.

[Dagaalyahan]

^^LOL, this guy is pathetic. He couldnt find anything to back up his claims so instead he edited the original quote.

This is trollish.

And I STILL dont know why the so-called mods havent banned him.

[Planet Asia]

alko said:

^^You mean : No one group in the WORLD was free from slavery.

Being more precise that is correct.

[dodona79]

The Abyssinians using the arms and expertise provided by the colonialists captured Harar in 1884 and started raiding Ogaden Somali villages in that area, killing the men and selling women and children as slaves.

www.ogaden.com/History.htm

[dodona79]

Also too, the lines that run to Berbera, Zeila, and Tajura were protected by Wondimu's warrior kings of Showa and the Emirs who themselves were slave traders from north Ethiopia.

www.dehai.org/conflict/articles/selam_ethiopia_art_of_lying.html

[barre]

dodona79 said:

barre said:

Also in reply to dodona79's outragous claims.

1.)[b]Ethiopia is not 3000 years old, it is only a 100 years old.

[/b][/size]
Your map is correct Axum did expand into the sudan after the defeat of christian Meroe
but it never penetrated the south, nor reached the Awash river.
No Oromo.Gurage or Sidamo has layed eyes on this so called Axum, and have only met Amharas in the 1200's.
No Abbysinian has ever achieved control over the south until the 1880s when thansk to cheap loans and 200,000 rifles supplied by the french and Russians the balance of Power was changed and Ethiopia was born thanks to Emperor Menelik.
[/quote]

www.ethiopianhistory.com/articles.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_date_of_nationhood[/quote]

I suggest you read the links you post, before you post them.
Both links agree with my common knowledge that as a civilization Abbysinias history begins with Axum
and that is from the 1st century.

Before that you were the Yemeni america,
a new land for them to emigrate to, where they civilized you and built the foundations of axum.

Why are you called Habesha, Habesha was one of the dominant tribes of Yemen that still exist today.

Why was your language called Geez.
It was named after the 3geezaat the second dominant tribe that crossed the red sea.

And Stop using this misleading name.
You too the name Ethiopia recently, during Haile Selasse time. Your proper name is Abbysinia Empire.

The real Historic owner of the name Ethiopia has always been the Sudan, until the 1930's.

[barre]

dodona79 said:

Also too, the lines that run to Berbera, Zeila, and Tajura were protected by Wondimu's warrior kings of Showa and the Emirs who themselves were slave traders from north Ethiopia.

www.dehai.org/conflict/articles/selam_ethiopia_art_of_lying.html

wondimu's authority extended to the borders of Harar.
only. Between Harar and the somali ports all trade was in the hands of somalis.
the city of Harar was the staging post of this slave trade and no Ethiopian had control till 1887.