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Post by anodyne on Dec 13, 2005 15:42:29 GMT -5
I hope he will not ban me ... Why would he ban you? |
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Dec 13, 2005 15:45:39 GMT -5
He wouldn't. That would be stupid.
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Post by osservatore on Dec 14, 2005 3:39:52 GMT -5
It also reminds me of some of crazy quasi-Fascist esotericist Julius Evola's work which was/and still is popular in Italy and Europe/America to this day..and he believed in the Nordic Super race which came from Hyberborea(to the ancient greeks Hyperborea was located what we know as the Scandinavia and Baltic regions). Well, nobody listens to Evola's theories. Only some fascist loaded of crazy ideas. |
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Post by Ilmatar on Dec 14, 2005 6:30:12 GMT -5
As it happens I spent the last night studying the Swedish prehistory from mainstream sources. The bronze age culture of Southern Sweden / Denmark was very interesting one, and undeniably had very close links to the Mediterranean World.
However, Vinci's theories should be regarded as they really are: Fantasies by an amateur. Vinci is an engineer with no formal education and seemingly very little knowledge in history, archeology or, most importantly, linguistics. For instance, most Finnish placenames he quotes have Medieval or Viking age origins. They might seem or sound like ancient Greek placenames, but the similarity is mainly due to similar distribution on vowls an consonants in modern Finnish and ancient Greek (the similarity to the modern Greek is even more evident, though). It also seems strange that the Ilidiatic placenames would have only survived in Finland, and not in Sweden or Denmark, where the population has been more sedentary. In addition, Vinci's assumption that the Baltics were misty during the Bronze Age doesn't hold. The flourishing of the Bronze Age culture in Southern Scandinavia was indeed a result of very favourable climatic conditions. Winters were mild and summers dry. And in any case the favourable conditions did last well into the 7th century BC, which is commonly held as the latest possible date Iliad was written down.
There are also other things that don't fit at all, things that a serious historian would see straight away.
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byz
Full Member
rodostamo na ginesai
Posts: 171
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Post by byz on Dec 14, 2005 7:18:28 GMT -5
Didn't Cavalli-Sforza mention a similar thing somewhere?
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Post by Ilmatar on Dec 14, 2005 7:23:28 GMT -5
Something implying a Scandinavian/Baltic migration to Magna Grecia sometime before the 8th century BC ? I doubt it....
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byz
Full Member
rodostamo na ginesai
Posts: 171
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Post by byz on Dec 15, 2005 0:10:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I know it sounds really stupid - but I remember a Cavalli-Sforza reference, I'm gonna see if I can hunt it down.
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Post by curiousman on Dec 15, 2005 5:14:56 GMT -5
Something implying a Scandinavian/Baltic migration to Magna Grecia sometime before the 8th century BC ? I doubt it.... Magna Grecia? Are you sure? Magna Grecia was in Italy (Southern Italy), perhaps you meant Greece mainland. |
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Post by Ilmatar on Dec 15, 2005 7:26:11 GMT -5
Magna Grecia? Are you sure? Magna Grecia was in Italy (Southern Italy), perhaps you meant Greece mainland. My bad.  Should have spoken about Greek World in general. How old would that Cavalli-Sforza reference be ? Gigantic leaps have been taken in the population genetics since The History and Geography of Human Genes was published in 1994. Cavalli-Sforza himself said, as late as 1999, that the book should probably be rewritten in 5-10 years of time. And this really seems the case, since there have been major breakthroughs in the field since, after more genetic data has been gathered and analized. As we speak it seems that Greek do indeed have modest amounts of Y -chromosome haplogroup I1a is dominant in Scandinavia and often seen, for as the "Viking haplogroup". However, it's thought to have originated in Balkans, where it's still present with the now dominant I1b. hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2004_v75_Semino.pdfMore importantly, at least I don't know about any valid archeological data pointing to immigration from the Baltics to the Greek World during the Bronze Age. |
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Post by Josh on Dec 20, 2005 16:00:57 GMT -5
It also reminds me of some of crazy quasi-Fascist esotericist Julius Evola's work which was/and still is popular in Italy and Europe/America to this day..and he believed in the Nordic Super race which came from Hyberborea(to the ancient greeks Hyperborea was located what we know as the Scandinavia and Baltic regions). Rather strange considering that he himself was a typical Med-featured Italian. |
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Post by curiousman on Dec 21, 2005 4:24:57 GMT -5
It also reminds me of some of crazy quasi-Fascist esotericist Julius Evola's work which was/and still is popular in Italy and Europe/America to this day..and he believed in the Nordic Super race which came from Hyberborea(to the ancient greeks Hyperborea was located what we know as the Scandinavia and Baltic regions). Rather strange considering that he himself was a typical Med-featured Italian.  Julius Evola.  |
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Should have spoken about Greek World in general.