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Post by murphee on Aug 11, 2005 11:41:52 GMT -5
I do know that a lot of Russians died under Stalin and that I'm not a Nazi apologist, rather I am a hater of Nazism.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Aug 11, 2005 11:44:03 GMT -5
No. I made the original post because I saw the statement about the Ukrainian famine on another board (A subject I know very little about). I placed it here not for 'Nazi propaganda" but to get a discussion going where I will learn something. Holocaust denial is something I do know about and have no interest in posting about it here. Now you sound quite confused and self-contradictory.
If you wanted to start a discussion about something you really know nothing about, why then don't you just ask a question about it, instead of posting a bunch of very one-sided defamatory crap?
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Aug 11, 2005 11:45:17 GMT -5
I do know that a lot of Russians died under Stalin and that I'm not a Nazi apologist, rather I am a hater of Nazism. Your own posts indicate you somehow don't hate Ukrainian Nazism.
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Post by murphee on Aug 11, 2005 11:48:47 GMT -5
I hate Ukrainian Nazism enough. Some of my family were killed by Ukrainian Nazis.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Aug 11, 2005 11:51:45 GMT -5
I hate Ukrainian Nazism enough. Some of my family were killed by Ukrainian Nazis. Keeping in mind your retarded posts, I very much doubt that claim; you surely don't behave like someone who lost his own relatives to Ukrainian Nazis.Personal insults are not allowed
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Post by murphee on Aug 11, 2005 11:54:41 GMT -5
Your debating would be better without personal attacks. My brother's wife, who still has family members living in the Ukraine, lost some of them who were killed by Ukrainian Nazis.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Aug 11, 2005 11:56:52 GMT -5
Your debating would be better without personal attacks. My brother's wife, who still has family members living in the Ukraine, lost some of them who were killed by Ukrainian Nazis.
She must be terrribly dis-tasted with you to say the least.
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Post by murphee on Aug 11, 2005 11:57:56 GMT -5
No, she loves me. It is you who finds me distasteful.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Aug 11, 2005 12:02:06 GMT -5
No, she loves me. It is you who finds me distasteful. I guess she will not anymore.
By the way, I will cease to post on this thread since keeping on conversating with you is sheer stupidity. If you really wish to continue, you can do so on my forum at here:
asaland.proboards26.com
PS - keep in mind on what I told you on the Holocaust-denial articles.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Aug 11, 2005 20:20:44 GMT -5
Ummm... why are you attacking, Murphee, you doofus?
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Post by Ilmatar on Aug 12, 2005 1:45:05 GMT -5
Odin, before questioning other people's capability to read, you could at least read their messages more carefully. I actually haven't specifically referred to the Ukrainian famine anywhere in my post, so I haven't either confirmed it happened or denied it. I simply don't know enaugh of the matter, and I still don't after reading those two articles. I need to see some serious historic studies on the matter before making up my mind. 5000 words internet articles just won't qualify as valid sources for me, per se.
However, having read extensively on other events in the Soviet Union during the Stalin reign, it wouldn't be impossible for me to believe that something like this actually happened.
And by the way, the gay persecution, if not holocaust, in the Nazi Germany is well documented. Of course there weren't that many victims, since the Nazi only could catch men leading an open, gay lifestyle. And let's just say that there weren't that many Rainbow marches anywhere in the World in the '30. Other openly gay men immigrated well before it became impossible. They got the message, when some of the prominent SS officers were stabbed to dead by their former comerades eager to clean the organization of the "unwanted" elements. It's also well known that suspected homosexuals were sent to the fronts where fights were most intense by Wermacht. "closet gays" were sent to
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Aug 12, 2005 12:44:05 GMT -5
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Post by Ilmatar on Aug 12, 2005 17:12:56 GMT -5
Odin, I was way too tired to read the whole article on the homosexuality and Nazism (and I agree that there definitely was a homoerotic undertone to Nazism...). But as someone who is indeed very careful of what she reads and believes I checked on who wrote this articles, and his credentials as a historian. I only got links to his site, on which he states his opinions to matters ranging from the spread of AIDS epidemic (he seems to believe that the HI virus doesn't spread through vaginal intercourse... with all the authority of someone with a MA in social sciences) to 9/11. I didn't get a link to institutional site which would have given him credentials as a historian working in academic environment. Actually I couldn't get a link to an institutional site which would have proved that he actually was envolved in projects he vaguely referred to on his AOL site (he says he is a former AIDS reseacher, but doesn't tell where or when he did his research).
My conclusion is that if Michael P. Wright was a professional historian I might have agreed or disagreed with him, but I could have been certain that his writings have been / will be exposed to the open academic debate. Now I just can't take him seriously enaugh even to start it.
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Aug 14, 2005 17:33:03 GMT -5
Hey Murphee,
Who do you think hated Jews more? The Germans, with the mass extermination through out Europe, or the Arabs with the suicide bombing?
With the Arabs, the desire is clearly there. But I'm not sure they have the organization necessary to carry out their desires.
While the Germans hated Jews very much, but were pretty well organized, and had mechanizations to implement their hatred.
Is the Arab anti-semetism more hateful but merely more ineffectual?
Who do you personally feel more hated by?
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Post by murphee on Aug 14, 2005 21:47:49 GMT -5
Hard question. I'll try to answer best I can... Personally, I feel hated by neither, although I know people exist who hate Jews. I am Jewish by ancestry, and I don't personally feel hated nor do I hate. I have no hatred towards Germans, Arabs, Muslims etc. I view other humans as much like myself, not all that different from me...so I don't view Muslims, Palestinians, Germans etc. as 'the other.' Also, I have Northern European (German, Russian, Polish) ancestry as well as Jewish. About the issues: they are political, racial, economic: The 'Muslim'/'Jewish' conflict centers over dispute over land. The 'German'/'Jewish' of WW2 and before concerned racial, economic, minority with a majority culture...I am oversimplifying, I know...but the conflicts have their 'unique flavors,' causes, etc.
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