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Post by Crimson Guard on Aug 31, 2005 20:59:28 GMT -5
<<of celtic or grmanic origin>>
Their not vlad!
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Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Sept 1, 2005 16:32:58 GMT -5
<<of celtic or grmanic origin>> Their not vlad! Why not ? I've seen many northern italians, and they aren't different from Austrians, less or more.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Sept 1, 2005 16:48:34 GMT -5
I read all the genetic testing,their not any different gentically or lookwise from their Southern kin.
And the Germanic admixture into Italy/Sicily is basically non-existant ,they never altered the gene pool.
And the old tale of Sicilian's getting Red and Blond hair from the Norman's is B.S!
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Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Sept 1, 2005 16:57:49 GMT -5
I read all the genetic testing,their not any different gentically or lookwise from their Southern kin. And the Germanic admixture into Italy/Sicily is basically non-existant ,they never altered the gene pool. And the old tale of Sicilian's getting Red and Blond hair from the Norman's is B.S! I'm speaking about north italians not Sicily. Whatever a genetic test could say, i reapeat that aren't different from southern germans or form swiss. Southerners aren't different from Greeks
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Post by Crimson Guard on Sept 1, 2005 17:04:28 GMT -5
I was speaking og Italy as well ,as I included Italy above.
Northern Italy is Mostly Dinaric,Alpine and Atlanto-Med area.
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Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Sept 1, 2005 17:52:19 GMT -5
I was speaking og Italy as well ,as I included Italy above. Northern Italy is Mostly Dinaric,Alpine and Atlanto-Med area. Well, both Dinarics and Alpinids are central europeans on origin.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Sept 1, 2005 20:09:05 GMT -5
Yes and I never said otherwise,all of Italy(North/South)and Sicily is mostly Alpine.
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Post by Liquid Len on Sept 4, 2005 13:44:17 GMT -5
When I compare the Italian Swiss with the German Swiss I have to say they look quite distinct on the whole, with some exceptions of course. I suppose the former differ hardly from the north Italians, so they probably look distinct too. But when I look at the north Italian parliamentarians at Racial Reality I find some striking exceptions who look just like people from north of the Alps. For example: He looks like a mountaineer from central Switzerland: They look stereotypically Bavarian: He could be from Zurich, probably right-wing oriented and working for a Bank: Could pass for a high Swiss army officer, politically conservative:
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Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Sept 4, 2005 16:27:50 GMT -5
When I compare the Italian Swiss with the German Swiss I have to say they look quite distinct on the whole, with some exceptions of course. I suppose the former differ hardly from the north Italians, so they probably look distinct too. But when I look at the north Italian parliamentarians at Racial Reality I find some striking exceptions who look just like people from north of the Alps. I've seen many swiss too and i don't see a so distinct line between germans and italians. Italian swiss are equal to french swiss, imo. North Italy is part of Central europe not with mediterranean europe
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Post by Liquid Len on Sept 4, 2005 17:16:19 GMT -5
I've seen many swiss too and i don't see a so distinct line between germans and italians. Italian swiss are equal to french swiss, imo. Really? To me the Italian Swiss look quite exotic. And obviously different from the French Swiss. Even the latter's cephalic index tends to be quite a bit lower. North Italy is part of Central europe not with mediterranean europe It's not pred. Mediterranid, I agree, but there seem to be details in the face that evade traditional racial classification, and that is where the difference lies. Alpine and Dinaric etc are quite coarse categories, and the old racial maps were mostly based on nothing more than stature, cephalic index and pigmentation. (Exceptions: Coon considered the head size as well and Lundman the height-length-index.) That's simply not enough to conclude that northern Italians look the same as southern Germans or French.
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Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Sept 4, 2005 18:10:33 GMT -5
It's not pred. Mediterranid, I agree, but there seem to be details in the face that evade traditional racial classification, and that is where the difference lies. Alpine and Dinaric etc are quite coarse categories, and the old racial maps were mostly based on nothing more than stature, cephalic index and pigmentation. (Exceptions: Coon considered the head size as well and Lundman the height-length-index.) That's simply not enough to conclude that northern Italians look the same as southern Germans or French. [/quote]
Well, afterall the combination of cephalic index, pigmentation and stature is very important : they're the basilar fundaments of anthropology. North Italy, not only isn't predominantly Mediterranean, bu neither in significant proportions : i would estimate the percentage of gracile-Meds inside the native north italian pop. less than 10%. Probably northern italians aren't exactly equal to south germans and French, but are surely very, very similar. They don't differ very much in pigmentation (light mixed, dark mixed) , they're brachicephalics in the mean, and they're even taller. Imo, the five dominant groups of north Italy, in order of importance are Alpinids, Dinarids (light or dark pigmented), Atlantids, Nordids, UP and last Meds.
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Post by Liquid Len on Sept 4, 2005 19:46:46 GMT -5
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Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Sept 5, 2005 2:22:01 GMT -5
The point with the pics in my post is that these are north Italians who are really indistinguishable from central Europeans in a sense that they look even cliché-like. Anyone familiar with the German Swiss and the Bavarians will find these examples rather funny. Others of course will not, because the can't get the point. Now if north Italians were really that similar to central Europeans as you are claiming this would be rather impossible and my post would be completely pointless. Just for comparison I'll post six examples of parliamentarians whom I find somehow exotic looking or let's say rather "Italian", regardless of their subracial classification. As they are more frequent than the extremely central European looking fellows I didn't have to search for a long time. Btw. I don't know that north Italians are taller. Do you have any statistics? Maybe those near Austria and Slovenia. But for example the Italian Swiss are among the shortest Swiss, and some north Italian areas will probably be similar in this respect. Sorry, but the pics you post , don't prove anything really. To be sincere, i find that about four of the six man you posted wouldn't out of place in Austria or in central France, to make an example (Philosopher Norberto Bobbio, could be french indeed). In the examples you have found there is for sure a strong Dinaric ("Norid" to be precise, the most light variant) component, plus another Alpinoid component; both these are the heart of central Europe. I personally don't give too importance to a site like "Racial Reality". I find not good. I base my statements on Anthropologic studies. About stature north italians are even taller than the central european mean, cause the effect of the dinaric predominance in many areas; the dinaric type, like you should know, is probably the tallest european type within the Nordic. In north eastern for example the height is 177 cm, (the whole Germany, from north to south, is 176cm in mean). (1999). Len, i don't know what you mean exactly with the term "exotic". What , in your opinion, in north-italians differs from the central europeans populations ? what is foreign or "exotic", in your opinion ? Cite a series of phenotypical points , please (no pics . Pics, often are partial. I could find many which sustain my thesis, but i prefer keep the thing on a classic anthropologic field). NOTE * = It's probable our "Standards of evaluation" being a bit different. Maybe cause this, we disagree on many things. What's your nationality ? (if i can ask)
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Post by nockwasright on Sept 5, 2005 2:36:52 GMT -5
I base my statements on Anthropologic studies. Which studies are you referring to?
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Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Sept 5, 2005 2:45:04 GMT -5
I base my statements on Anthropologic studies. Which studies are you referring to? Bisutti studies and other material.
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