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Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 19:47:55 GMT -5
Well you are not proving anything. I gave an example of the presence of Genoveses in Castille for hundreds of years. So Colon being a Genovese working for Castille is no surprise . thats because you dont even know how colom entered iberia.while those genovese where hired colom wasnt.
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 20:00:46 GMT -5
He gave the name Cuba to the second island because it was the name of his birthplace in Portugal. ha!! Cubanacan was the name of what the Cibueney indians called Cuba ,so they shorten it to Cuba. Taíno not cibueney.
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XpoFERENS
New Member
Columbus de Terra Rubra
Posts: 10
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Post by XpoFERENS on Jun 3, 2005 20:54:29 GMT -5
This seems to contradict itself. What kind of connection could he have had if he was a devout Catholic? Also, what better cover than posing as a devout Catholic? It is safe to say that he was a devout Christian, though his switch from the Eastern to Western Church was definitely necessary if he was to conceal his identity.
Once more, I think Durlacher-Wolper is more of an authority than you.
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Post by Artemidoros on Jun 4, 2005 10:38:14 GMT -5
Columbus actually wrote to his Genoese bankers repeatedly, always in Spanish. The funny thing is they wrote to him in Italian. really? prove it I do not make things up. "As it turned out, no document was ever found showing that the Bank had received any investment by the Admiral or his heirs. Both letters from the Bank were written in vulgar Italian still quite readable today and basically correct. I make this observation because misinformed writers have suggested that the Admiral did not write in Italian since Italian could not be understood on paper. In point of historical fact, there were and still are available more letters written in vulgar Italian or Genoese than one would wish to read. I suspect instead that if Christopher, who was certainly not an illiterate, did not write in Italian the reason was probably personal, another one of the mysterious reasons surrounding his secretive life."www.millersv.edu/~columbus/tagliattini.htmlOf course now you will ask me for the original letters ;D I will send them by courier ;D
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Post by Artemidoros on Jun 4, 2005 11:01:46 GMT -5
If he did not speak italian and did not read italian it would have been noted.same goes for Greek.produce anything that states he spoke greek and wrote anything in greek besides punctuation marks. Xpo is not a punctuation mark. As for Italian, there are a couple of notes he had written, though he did not seem to have been fluent. Xpo is not a punctuation mark. It is Christo in Greek, not Christ and not an island. Christ is a Greek name but Jesus is Jewish. Wrong again. And the symbol you posted is not Xpo. I will start charging you tuition fees I stand by what I said. You are not seriously challenging me on this? I never said it was. It was a Latin translation that had been done many centuries earlier. You seem to have serious comprehension problems. He wrote more in Greek than he wrote in Catalan. Huh? I don't know what you are saying, but Columbus did not use a monogram for Christ. No, but I exist, while the aristocratic Coloms of Tarroja do not. So? I never provided that link or quoted the site. You are confused.
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Post by Artemidoros on Jun 4, 2005 11:23:05 GMT -5
gambler> That is true.Their was a few greeks among the Spanish explorers and conquistadors.But their was way more Genoveses who were among the Spanish explorers and conquistadores. Here is an example of nationalities who were with Hernan Cortez when he entered Mexico.it says 70 Italians the Majority were genoveses,3 Greeks. Quite right, there were not many Greeks with Cortez. I went through the list and found many Genoese and other Italians (did not count). I found only two people mentioned as Greeks and one who was half Greek. I also found two more who were more than likely Greeks, based on their names (one was called Griego). The Greeks were few between the soldiers and colonists, certainly far fewer than the Italians, but more than English, Dutch, even Frenchmen. Most Greeks were mariners and I would hazard the guess that those who served as soldiers or became colonists, were ex-sailors. For example there were, as I showed in an earlier post, at least 17 Greeks with Pizzaro, artillery gunners. Most were probably ex-navy gunners. The number of Greeks in the navy I assume varied form ship to ship, depending on the captain/owner and the port that was the ship's base. So we have 5 Greeks amongst 35 members of the Magellan expedition, 2 of them officers, but none amongst almost 100 in the first Columbus voyage. My aim was to show they were present in the Spanish navy at the time. BTW some were in Argentina too www.solatino.gr/spa/art/nuestros_lectores/presencia_griega_en_el_descubrimiento_de_am_rica
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 12:04:33 GMT -5
There is no notes he had written in italian. i never said xpo is punctuation mark.xpo is greek monogram for christ.
again i never said it was a puncuation mark.stop twisting what i said. Chios Aegean=greek island (i think aegean is an island)
Jesus word is not Jewish."jesus" is latin for Iesous which is Greek from Hebrew Jeshua/Jehovah <~~ even thats not "real hebrew" the symbol xp is Greek for christ.
yes i am show me.correct me...
The bible was not from arabic translation end of story.
symbols,marks and puntucations is not wrtting in Greek. Fact:all letters to his bother is in Spanish Fact:all letters to bankers in Italy written in Spanish. Fact:
they did even today there house still stands.
Xpo is monogram
regardless if you did or didnt provided the link the fact remains that is the theory why the Greek Colom choose to remain mysterious
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 12:12:15 GMT -5
I do not make things up. "As it turned out, no document was ever found showing that the Bank had received any investment by the Admiral or his heirs. Both letters from the Bank were written in vulgar Italian still quite readable today and basically correct. I make this observation because misinformed writers have suggested that the Admiral did not write in Italian since Italian could not be understood on paper. In point of historical fact, there were and still are available more letters written in vulgar Italian or Genoese than one would wish to read. I suspect instead that if Christopher, who was certainly not an illiterate, did not write in Italian the reason was probably personal, another one of the mysterious reasons surrounding his secretive life."www.millersv.edu/~columbus/tagliattini.htmlOf course now you will ask me for the original letters ;D I will send them by courier ;D Italian it the closest thing to Latin and vulgar Italian is older than italian which is even MORE truer Latin.
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Post by Artemidoros on Jun 4, 2005 12:30:14 GMT -5
I do not make things up. "As it turned out, no document was ever found showing that the Bank had received any investment by the Admiral or his heirs. Both letters from the Bank were written in vulgar Italian still quite readable today and basically correct. I make this observation because misinformed writers have suggested that the Admiral did not write in Italian since Italian could not be understood on paper. In point of historical fact, there were and still are available more letters written in vulgar Italian or Genoese than one would wish to read. I suspect instead that if Christopher, who was certainly not an illiterate, did not write in Italian the reason was probably personal, another one of the mysterious reasons surrounding his secretive life."www.millersv.edu/~columbus/tagliattini.htmlOf course now you will ask me for the original letters ;D I will send them by courier ;D Italian it the closest thing to Latin and vulgar Italian is older than italian which is even MORE truer Latin. Wtf are you talking about? Are you on drugs?
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 12:35:11 GMT -5
Italian it the closest thing to Latin and vulgar Italian is older than italian which is even MORE truer Latin. Wtf are you talking about? Are you on drugs? dont be hostile Origins Linguistically speaking, the Italian language is a member of the Romance group of the Italic subfamily of the Indo-European family of languages. It is spoken principally in the Italian peninsula, southern Switzerland, San Marino, Sicily, Corsica, northern Sardinia, and on the northeastern shore of the Adriatic Sea, as well as in North and South America. Considered a single language with numerous dialects, Italian, like the other Romance languages, is the direct offspring of the Latin spoken by the Romans and imposed by them on the peoples under their dominion. Of all the major Romance languages, Italian retains the closest resemblance to Latin. The struggle between the written but dead language and the various forms of the living speech, most of which were derived from Vulgar Latin, was nowhere so intense or so protracted as in Italy.
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Post by Artemidoros on Jun 4, 2005 12:46:54 GMT -5
There is no notes he had written in italian. i never said xpo is punctuation mark.xpo is greek monogram for christ. again i never said it was a puncuation mark.stop twisting what i said. Chios Aegean=greek island (i think aegean is an island) Jesus word is not Jewish."jesus" is latin for Iesous which is Greek from Hebrew Jeshua/Jehovah <~~ even thats not "real hebrew" the symbol xp is Greek for christ. yes i am show me.correct me... The bible was not from arabic translation end of story. symbols,marks and puntucations is not wrtting in Greek. Fact:all letters to his bother is in Spanish Fact:all letters to bankers in Italy written in Spanish. Fact: they did even today there house still stands. Xpo is monogram regardless if you did or didnt provided the link the fact remains that is the theory why the Greek Colom choose to remain mysterious First, your challenge: "The Translation School of Toledo was the main place where a great number of books were translated from Arabic into Latin. These included both, original Arab works and those previously translated into Arabic from Hellenistic Greek literature. Among the classics, which had been translated to Arab and edited several times and from different versions, appear the works of Euclid." www.disc-conference.org/disc2000/mirror/khorezmi/"During the Middle Ages, Jews were instrumental in the development of Castilian into a prestige language. In the Toledo School of Translators, erudite Jews translated Arabic and Hebrew works (often translated earlier from Greek) into Castilian and Christians translated again into Latin for transmission to Europe"encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Judaeo-SpanishThat done, I demand that you stop trolling. More specifically do not mix what is written in a site I have nothing to do with, with my words. Especially as you make it seem it is something I said. I am talking about that Chios stuff. I will not waste any more of my time curing your ignorance. If you don't know the Aegean is a sea and not an island, look up a map. If you do not know the difference between an abbreviation and a monogram open a dictionary. I will no longer reply to you for an additional reason: You are an irritating troll but it would not be appropriate to use my moderating powers while I am locked in an argument with you. So I will stop here in order to be able to ban you next time you troll. PS As my last contribution to your education, vulgar Latin and vulgar Italian are not the same. The first is Latin and the second is Italian, obvious to everyone but you.
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 13:03:16 GMT -5
There is no notes he had written in italian. i never said xpo is punctuation mark.xpo is greek monogram for christ. again i never said it was a puncuation mark.stop twisting what i said. Chios Aegean=greek island (i think aegean is an island) Jesus word is not Jewish."jesus" is latin for Iesous which is Greek from Hebrew Jeshua/Jehovah <~~ even thats not "real hebrew" the symbol xp is Greek for christ. yes i am show me.correct me... The bible was not from arabic translation end of story. symbols,marks and puntucations is not wrtting in Greek. Fact:all letters to his bother is in Spanish Fact:all letters to bankers in Italy written in Spanish. Fact: they did even today there house still stands. Xpo is monogram regardless if you did or didnt provided the link the fact remains that is the theory why the Greek Colom choose to remain mysterious First, your challenge: "The Translation School of Toledo was the main place where a great number of books were translated from Arabic into Latin. These included both, original Arab works and those previously translated into Arabic from Hellenistic Greek literature. Among the classics, which had been translated to Arab and edited several times and from different versions, appear the works of Euclid." www.disc-conference.org/disc2000/mirror/khorezmi/"During the Middle Ages, Jews were instrumental in the development of Castilian into a prestige language. In the Toledo School of Translators, erudite Jews translated Arabic and Hebrew works (often translated earlier from Greek) into Castilian and Christians translated again into Latin for transmission to Europe"encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Judaeo-SpanishThat done, I demand that you stop trolling. More specifically do not mix what is written in a site I have nothing to do with, with my words. Especially as you make it seem it is something I said. I am talking about that Chios stuff. I will not waste any more of my time curing your ignorance. If you don't know the Aegean is a sea and not an island, look up a map. If you do not know the difference between an abbreviation and a monogram open a dictionary. I will no longer reply to you for an additional reason: You are an irritating troll but it would not be appropriate to use my moderating powers while I am locked in an argument with you. So I will stop here in order to be able to ban you next time you troll. i am not trolling i kept my cool . as far as the links you posted it doesnt speak of the bible.
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Post by jp13323 on Jun 23, 2005 12:02:19 GMT -5
lol what more is there to say? Colon was catalan as shown in DNA tests. If there is proof that would negate this finding then you can make for a strong case but it would be close to impossible.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jun 23, 2005 14:22:36 GMT -5
I agree with the poster above. DNA has eliminated the Columbus-as-a-Secret-Jew theory, and confirmed that he was Catalonian. [Catalonian dna, Italian dna and Greek dna are easy to distinguish--and the science says "Catalonian".] How much more do you guys need? Sheesh! The dna, added to the fact that he lived in Spain, over top of the fact that he didn't speak Italian--and made grammatical mistakes in Castilian consistent with a native Catalan-speaker--are pretty persuasive. Professor Charles Merrill's analysis on the Discovery Channel documentary was pretty compelling: All roads lead to Catalonia. Why are people still debating this after the final nail in the coffin of the conspiracy theories: the dna analysis?
P.S.--Can any of the science buffs in here weigh in on the massive difference between Greek dna and Western European [i.e., Catalan] dna? --So far as I understand Greek dna is close to "Near Eastern" dna, while dna from the extreme Western Mediterranean is nowhere near either of those cluster-groups. But fill us in if you have a specific link or article.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jun 23, 2005 16:03:37 GMT -5
That DNA test was inconclussive....The writing mistakes is not crucial factor...
I did watch some of that crock of rubbish Discovery channel .It answered no questions at all,like it was advertising as doing.It just went over the same controversy and hearsay as usual.It was just some of the biggest load of garbage going.Very poorly made...
Their DNA test carried out by "Spanish" scientist couldnt & didnt find out a thing.They said they examined the wrong idiot,or they had no way of telling that was him for sure,or their was sufficient evidence to believe it was not Columbus lol. The biggest problem was that they may of tested the wrong sample and the sample they tested was in a badly deteriorated state .
This Charles Merrill character claims he (Columbus)was "Catalan",and made it point he was not spanish either,cause the nation of Spain didnt exist yet,hmmm..he also said the portugese and jewish theory are both completly groundless,go figure!!
Big example of how dumb they are though:
They said that Diego Colon was Christopher's brother. Of course thats not true, Diego Colon was one of Columbus's sons who ruled the entire hemisphere from the Columbus Alacazar in Santo Domingo. Columbus's brother was Bartolomeo.
The dominican Republic also is said to be home of the remains of Columbus,but so far nothing has been done.
He was an Italian as tradition has it.
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