|
|
Post by Indefens on Mar 18, 2004 22:44:10 GMT -5
Hey everyone. Newbie here. First, as a quick aside, let me just say how happy I am to have found this forum. I've always been fascinated by race / ethnicity / anthropology etc... and I love discussing it with people who know more than I do. I'm not a racist by any stretch of the imagination (got no reason to hate!) but I suppose I am a racialist because I believe there are differences between ethnic groups that ought to be explored, celebrated and understood...
But blah blah blah, right? Here's the reason for my post: I'm an Italian-American (father's famliy came from Sicily, maternal grandmother from Florence and maternal grandfather from Germany) and it's come to my attention that the birth rate in Italy - a pathetic 1.2 - is one of the lowest in the world! I was wondering if anyone knew how the Italians are planning to deal with this? I was hoping that they would invite back the descendants of those Italian emigrants who left for Brazil, America, Argentina, Australia, etc... if they felt a need to inject youth into their population. The way I see it, there ought to be at least as many ethnic Italians outside of Italy as there are in Italy. Does anyone know if there are any plans to do anything like this? Culturally speaking, I'm an American, and I love my country, but I would consider learning Italian and moving to Italy if the "motherland", so to speak, needed me. Also, why aren't Italians reproducing? How hard can it be?
|
|
|
|
Post by geirr on Mar 19, 2004 3:46:04 GMT -5
Most developed nations have low birthrates, There is a relatively large population therefore Italy isn't going to disappear soon. I know that Italy like Spain and Israel is attracting migrants from Argentina because of the economic downturn there so it is occuring. You have to realise that most migrants of Italian descent are either not fully Italian or have established lives in other countries, for example, I'm born in Argentina but have lived in Australia most of my life. My father's side is from Turin, so I'm technically half Italian. As wonderful as it would be to move to Italy I have no reason to, my work, life and family is in Australia. Italians are varied peoples, The regions are mainly different culturally and racially so the individual regions may have a problem with migrants moving into their area that are not ethnically similar. Israel has attracted jews from all over the world but their situation is different because they have a small population in an unfriendly environment. Italians on the other hand have diaspora living all over the world which has not only benefited the adopted homeland but inturn increased interest and knowledge about Italy abroad.
|
|
|
|
Post by HINDI on Mar 19, 2004 10:39:56 GMT -5
I have been in Italy and I think they're doing just fine..proud people also...and they do not mix alot with non-Italians..they even seem to dislike northern Europeans as I have seen on my holidays..they completely ignored the German and Dutch tourists...yet they respected me...It's the Med genes..  I love Italy... Ave Lazio |
|
|
|
Post by PotereDelSaturno on Mar 20, 2004 21:12:29 GMT -5
Hey everyone. Newbie here. First, as a quick aside, let me just say how happy I am to have found this forum. I've always been fascinated by race / ethnicity / anthropology etc... and I love discussing it with people who know more than I do. I'm not a racist by any stretch of the imagination (got no reason to hate!) but I suppose I am a racialist because I believe there are differences between ethnic groups that ought to be explored, celebrated and understood... But blah blah blah, right? Here's the reason for my post: I'm an Italian-American (father's famliy came from Sicily, maternal grandmother from Florence and maternal grandfather from Germany) and it's come to my attention that the birth rate in Italy - a pathetic 1.2 - is one of the lowest in the world! I was wondering if anyone knew how the Italians are planning to deal with this? I was hoping that they would invite back the descendants of those Italian emigrants who left for Brazil, America, Argentina, Australia, etc... if they felt a need to inject youth into their population. The way I see it, there ought to be at least as many ethnic Italians outside of Italy as there are in Italy. Does anyone know if there are any plans to do anything like this? Culturally speaking, I'm an American, and I love my country, but I would consider learning Italian and moving to Italy if the "motherland", so to speak, needed me. Also, why aren't Italians reproducing? How hard can it be? It is very expensive nowadays to have children. Many young Italian couples would prefer to be pretty well off economically without having children. The sad part is most young Italian women would like to have 2 or 3 children, but then reality sets in. This situation got worse when Italy switched from the Lira to the Euro. When this happened, all of the prices doubled. For example, let's say a pizza cost 2.000LIT, when they changed to the EURO, instead of placing the correct value of 1Euro, they kept it at 2Euro, thus doubling the price of it. Living has thus become very expensive.  The goverment does give money for each child born. It gives 2.000E for the first child and additional 1.000E for each child born. That is not alot of money and it doesn't provide enough impetus for a couple to procreate. We Italians, we are such in a pathetic state. We don't want immigrants, we don't want to become exctinct...but when it comes down to it, we do nothing to stop it. We just care about calcio and what is on RAI or Mediaset.  It makes me sick what state we are in...it really does. Nobody seems to want to change things.... |
|
|
|
Post by Indefens on Mar 20, 2004 23:35:26 GMT -5
It is very expensive nowadays to have children. Many young Italian couples would prefer to be pretty well off economically without having children. The sad part is most young Italian women would like to have 2 or 3 children, but then reality sets in. This situation got worse when Italy switched from the Lira to the Euro. When this happened, all of the prices doubled. For example, let's say a pizza cost 2.000LIT, when they changed to the EURO, instead of placing the correct value of 1Euro, they kept it at 2Euro, thus doubling the price of it. Living has thus become very expensive. The goverment does give money for each child born. It gives 2.000E for the first child and additional 1.000E for each child born. That is not alot of money and it doesn't provide enough impetus for a couple to procreate. We Italians, we are such in a pathetic state. We don't want immigrants, we don't want to become exctinct...but when it comes down to it, we do nothing to stop it. We just care about calcio and what is on RAI or Mediaset. It makes me sick what state we are in...it really does. Nobody seems to want to change things.... Gosh Potere, I don't know what to say. I don't mean to be rude but... maybe you Italians could spend some time in a cultural wasteland such as, oh I don't know, New Jersey, so you could gain a better appreciation of what your foolishness is destroying. I say that as a cousin, jealously but with love. |
|
|
|
Post by PotereDelSaturno on Mar 21, 2004 0:13:33 GMT -5
Indefens, I agree with you. We need to see some reality. Hopefully the Italians living abroad can help.  |
|
|
|
Post by Graeme on Mar 21, 2004 9:53:37 GMT -5
You Italians are not unique. In every Western country the birth rate is low, education takes a long time, the cost of living is high and the average age is getting older. The trouble is everyone wants the easy and cheap way out. Import people to do the work, immigrants, rather than spending money to train people at home. There are no incentives to get married and raise children. I can tell you the Italians in Australia do not have many children. The only ones here reproducing are the uneducated, ignorant immigrants from the third world. There are parts of Sydney where you would think you were in Lebanon not Australia, and it is growing bigger day by day.
|
|
|
|
Post by Indefens on Mar 23, 2004 0:34:15 GMT -5
Graeme-
Well there's always Argentina! 90% European and a birth rate of 2.5! Woo hoo!
|
|
|
|
Post by geirr on Mar 23, 2004 2:11:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Graeme on Mar 23, 2004 7:55:03 GMT -5
No thanks. The casa rosada is already occupied. I have four children by the way and have responsibilities in my own country.
|
|
|
|
Post by Springa on Mar 23, 2004 8:00:03 GMT -5
I always see these statistics about Argentina being 90% European, but I'm not sure about it. When I was there it looked like many people (the poor) looked mestizo, like Maradona for instance. But then, I was only in Buenos Aires. Maybe it's something like Brazil, which oficially has a "white majority", but anyone who calls themselves white is considered to be white in the census, including visible mulattos and mestizos. Graeme- Well there's always Argentina! 90% European and a birth rate of 2.5! Woo hoo! |
|
|
|
Post by AWAR on Mar 23, 2004 8:13:31 GMT -5
I always see these statistics about Argentina being 90% European, but I'm not sure about it. When I was there it looked like many people (the poor) looked mestizo, like Maradona for instance. But then, I was only in Buenos Aires. Maybe it's something like Brazil, which oficially has a "white majority", but anyone who calls themselves white is considered to be white in the census, including visible mulattos and mestizos. Find some pictures of Germany right after WWI and right after WWII, the Germans in those pictures look like Afghans and Gypsies etc. because of extreme poverty and hunger. |
|
|
|
Post by geirr on Mar 23, 2004 8:26:50 GMT -5
I always see these statistics about Argentina being 90% European, but I'm not sure about it. When I was there it looked like many people (the poor) looked mestizo, like Maradona for instance. But then, I was only in Buenos Aires. Maybe it's something like Brazil, which oficially has a "white majority", but anyone who calls themselves white is considered to be white in the census, including visible mulattos and mestizos. You're not far from the truth, there are many mestizo and Amerindian Argentinians, there are economic and political reasons why their numbers are hidden. |
|
|
|
Post by alex221166 on Mar 23, 2004 20:03:26 GMT -5
Find some pictures of Germany right after WWI and right after WWII, the Germans in those pictures look like Afghans and Gypsies etc. because of extreme poverty and hunger. There is no hunger in Brazil. At least there's no real food shortage, though the diet may be far from perfect. President Lula da Silva wanted to launch a campaign to end the hunger, but after winning the presidential elections, he realised that there was no hunger in Brazil. You can crop oranges in Brazil 4 times a year... Just to give you an idea |
|
|
|
Post by Indefens on Mar 27, 2004 0:33:58 GMT -5
Geirr-
Really? There are that many AmerIndian Argentinians? I don't know all the number I've seen have put Europeans at 97-98%. I put it at 90% because I thought it couldn't possible be THAT high, but all the pictures I've seen of Argentinians, they always looked really white to me. It's true that poverty and hunger have a way of changing appearance into something less recognizable, as was mentioned. Maybe that was it.
|
|
It makes me sick what state we are in...it really does. Nobody seems to want to change things....
