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Post by Racial Reality on Nov 25, 2003 8:58:57 GMT -5
Well, I'm not going to search through 21 pages. So unless you can link me to specific posts, I guess I'll have to live without knowledge of these "compelling arguments".
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Post by Melnorme on Nov 25, 2003 9:08:15 GMT -5
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Post by Melnorme on Nov 25, 2003 9:27:19 GMT -5
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Post by Sexy Italian Male on Nov 25, 2003 9:57:23 GMT -5
Hi im Italian not "Italistan" like Abdul who has mental problems i was born in a hospital & im old enough and i think im White .  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Prove
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Post by Prove on Nov 25, 2003 19:56:54 GMT -5
Coon's taxonomy doesn't have an 'Orientalid' or 'Berberid' type. He calls those types Mediterranean. Prove It!, on alex's board, has compelling arguments that Italians DO have not insignificant amounts of post-Neolithic Middle Eastern ancestry. He's posted a lot about it there, and you weren't around to try to refute it, which IMO is a shame. Sometime in the future, he plans to make a website about it, so you're going to have work on your hands.  I did not know that I was worthy of such fanfare!! But I am afraid my current progress does not do it justice. I'm still very far from releasing the site, and it should not see any light of day until after New Years I am afraid. As to Racial Reality having "work on his hands". Hmmm, I'm not too sure about that. At least not yet. Much of my arguments will focus on things that have happened in relatively recent times. It is very hard to find specific reading material that will try to account for links between The Black Death and its effects on Italian genetics, to give you just one poor example. Historical scholars just don't write that way. As a consequence, much of my arguments will rely on logic, hypothetical models, cross-referencing, and regretably...on speculation. I have not gotten myself knee-deep in research (as of yet), but from my vantage I foresee my site being more of an adventurous hypothesis than a compilation of scientific facts and records (though I will try to cite such sources whenever possible). I see myself as being the Wolfgang Schivelbusch of European Genetics. ;D All in all, Racial Reality definitely has the advantage. My website will not be an attempt to challenge him ( a la Refuting Racial Myths), but it will offer a point of view that was not exercised by his site. In fact, I have already stated that I do not believe that the Majority of Midean and North African ancestry in Italians or southern Italians is based on Post-Neolithic events. My site aims to be supplementary more than anything. |
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Post by Melnorme on Nov 25, 2003 20:52:13 GMT -5
This debate, if you think about it, is long overdue. And, now I can stop being the guy in the middle. |
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Post by Artemidoros on Nov 25, 2003 21:08:26 GMT -5
Melnorme
Well, there was a tactical withdrawal by Prove it. Maybe so that he can strike harder! Is he using (Med)hammer tactics? Hehe.
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Prove
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Post by Prove on Nov 26, 2003 0:19:57 GMT -5
This debate, if you think about it, is long overdue. And, now I can stop being the guy in the middle. You love being the devil's advocate, don't you Melnorme?  |
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Post by Sexy Italian Male on Nov 26, 2003 6:24:14 GMT -5
I love this ;D ;D ;D!!! PROVE IT! will kick ass in that debate cant wait...  |
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Prove
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Post by Prove on Nov 26, 2003 6:36:57 GMT -5
I love this ;D ;D ;D!!! PROVE IT! will kick ass in that debate cant wait... No I won't. Nor will it be a debate per se. Just a differing view, which no matter how valid, cannot be taken as infallible since Racial Reality has most of the genetic studies to back-up his corner. And let me just emphasize that this is not war. Most of the sub-racial bickering (the Nord vs. Med being just one example) can be summed up as acts of vanity. I want nothing to do with it and I have better things to do, as I am sure other people in here do. |
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Post by Racial Reality on Nov 26, 2003 7:46:59 GMT -5
much of my arguments will rely on logic, hypothetical models, cross-referencing, and regretably...on speculation. I'm not really interested in any of those things. They're essentially worthless up against the findings of modern genetics, as you yourself seem to realize. From one of the RMMB threads: It depends on how one defines marginal. That study is only looking at paternal ancestry. In terms of maternal input, Italians (north and south) are mostly Paleolithic. I've crunched the Y-chromosome and mtDNA figures from the present study and another one, and found that the breakdown of Neolithic ancestry in Italy is approximately as follows: 15% in the north, 25% in the center, and 30% in the south. I personally don't consider that a significant difference, given the clines that exist throughout Europe. But why the obsession with making Italians "Midean" at any cost? Aren't you happy enough just being Southern European? |
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Post by Melnorme on Nov 26, 2003 8:18:46 GMT -5
" I've crunched the Y-chromosome and mtDNA figures from the present study and another one"
I think the 'crunching' of paternal and maternal ancestry figures is ultimately inaccurate, and only tentatively related to 'true' admixture percentages.
"But why the obsession with making Italians "Midean" at any cost? Aren't you happy enough just being Southern European? "
OH, come on, RM! He's made it clear that he's only searching for the truth.
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Post by Racial Reality on Nov 26, 2003 8:33:33 GMT -5
I think the 'crunching' of paternal and maternal ancestry figures is ultimately inaccurate, and only tentatively related to 'true' admixture percentages. I agree. Autosomes are a better indicator. And Cavalli-Sforza's study on European genetic variation reveals similar clines of Neolithic ancestry, while other autosomal studies show an absence of post-Neolithic gene flow across the Mediterranean. Ignoring hard data and relying instead on hypothesis and speculation is a strange way to go about finding the truth. |
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Post by Melnorme on Nov 26, 2003 9:00:42 GMT -5
"while other autosomal studies show an absence of post-Neolithic gene flow across the Mediterranean."
In that case, it would go a long way if you posted these autosomal studies.
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Post by gorgeousgal2k on Nov 26, 2003 12:51:42 GMT -5
age: 15 birthplace: london ethnicity: white - (but one of my parents is english and the other is ...well, jewish (frm russia) lol!) of course that doesn't go down to well at skadi   |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
