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Post by Mike the Jedi on Jan 4, 2006 3:56:59 GMT -5
Yeah, they don't even generally look like each other.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Jan 4, 2006 9:49:54 GMT -5
magneto which place did you get those pictures from? I would like to see some more of these pictures. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 4, 2006 11:27:30 GMT -5
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 4, 2006 19:28:06 GMT -5
No such thing as a "West Ethiopoid", that useless anthropological jargon from Skadi, I even remember a poster on Skadi with a thread about so-called "Ethiopoids" in West Africa, nonsense! They are a Europoid influenced Negroid desert-nomad type so the similarities, same-similar specialisation is obvious. Please post evidence that Fulanis are "Europoid" influenced, with hards facts, not a picture spamming circus consisting of stereotypical idealized types[ie, this is what a "true Negrid" looks like]. You say they're Europoid influenced so please provide evidence that Europoids influenced Negroids to created this physical type. |
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 4, 2006 19:40:51 GMT -5
They are a Europoid influenced Negroid desert-nomad type so the similarities, same-similar specialisation is obvious. Please post evidence that Fulanis are "Europoid" influenced, with hards facts, not a picture spamming circus consisting of stereotypical idealized types[ie, this is what a "true Negrid" looks like]. You say they're Europoid influenced so please provide evidence that Europoids influenced Negroids to created this physical type. Might post more later, know its old, but just that you see I'm not alone  www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/93/23/13206Furthermore I saw "pure-typical" Negrid Fulani myself, so only large samples and especially looking for that which show the deviating (from Sudanid standard) characteristics are really important. |
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 4, 2006 19:51:06 GMT -5
"partly settled and characterized by non-negroid features of possible caucasoid origin"
This is utter nonsense, this citation came from a 1965 book from Stenning at a time when Fulani were still thought to be Hamites[read Caucasoids] of a non-Negroid origin, which is of course outdated debunked anthropology. As for the HLA data, another HLA study said Greeks were close to sub-Saharan Africans, so go figure. Paternally, the Fula of Nigeria and Niger show no "non-Negroid" non-African lineages [Cruciani,2004] and only 18% ancient West Eurasian lineages[Salas et tal,2004] which equally 9% Eurasian ancestry.
Stenning, D. J. (1965) in Peoples of Africa, ed. Gibbs
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 4, 2006 19:55:05 GMT -5
Also from another HLA study utilizing the same populations: HLA class I in three West African ethnic groups: genetic distances from sub-Saharan and Caucasoid populations. Modiano D, Luoni G, Petrarca V, Sodiomon Sirima B, De Luca M, Simpore J, Coluzzi M, Bodmer JG, Modiano G. Istituto di Parassitologia, W.H.O. Collaborating Centre for Malaria Epidemiology, Universita di Roma "La Sapienza", Rome, Italy. Fulani of Burkina Faso (West Africa) are a particularly interesting ethnic group because of their lower susceptibility to Plasmodium falciparum malaria as compared to sympatric populations, Mossi and Rimaibe. Moreover, the occurrence of a Caucasoid component in their genetic make-up has been suggested on the basis of their physical traits and cultural traditions even though this view was not supported by genetic studies. A total of 149 unrelated subjects (53 Mossi, 47 Rimaibe and 49 Fulani) have been typed for 97 HLA class I alleles with the amplification refractory mutation system/polymerase chain reaction (ARMS/PCR) technique. Mossi and Rimaibe data were pooled since none of the 42 statistically testable alleles exhibited a significant heterogeneity. These pooled gene frequencies were found to be very different from those of Fulani: a certain (P<0.001) or a likely (0.001 <P<0.01) difference was found for 5 and 12 alleles, respectively. Four alleles (A*24, A*29, B*27, B*3701) appeared to be essentially "private" Fulani alleles with respect to the other two populations but their presence was not associated with higher resistance to P. falciparum. Our data have then been compared using chord distances (CD) with those from the literature on Africans (including Gambian Fulani) and Caucasoids. The Burkina Faso and Gambian Fulani turned out to be very different (CD=2.191). Moreover, Burkina Faso Fulani were very distant from sympatric Mossi and Rimaibe (CDs=1.912 and 1.884), whereas Gambian Fulani were similar to sympatric Mandinka and Wolof (CDs=0.412 and 0.388) to an extent comparable to that found between Mossi and Rimaibe (CD=0.555). Our study does not suggest the involvement of HLA I in the higher resistance to malaria of Fulani, and confirms a low, if any, Caucasoid component in their gene pool. |
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 4, 2006 19:57:58 GMT -5
"partly settled and characterized by non-negroid features of possible caucasoid origin" This is utter nonsense, this citation came from a 1965 book from Stenning at a time when Fulani were still thought to be Hamites[read Caucasoids] of a non-Negroid origin, which is of course outdated debunked anthropology. As for the HLA data, another HLA study said Greeks were close to sub-Saharan Africans, so go figure. Paternally, the Fula of Nigeria and Niger show no "non-Negroid" non-African lineages [Cruciani,2004] and only 18% ancient West Eurasian lineages[Salas et tal,2004] which equally 9% Eurasian ancestry. Stenning, D. J. (1965) in Peoples of Africa, ed. Gibbs As I said above, since I saw Fulani myself, I know that they are largely Negrid, so no surprise, but still there are at least individuals to explain and this higher percentage of such individuals "made them famous" - obviously thats not fully cleared up now. Taking small random samples alone might be enough to clear that up anyway. But whereas the Fulani show just minor influence, never said something else, the Tubu are another matter, what are you saying about them:  Teda:  The real point about them is that they are no real full Negrids in the narrower sense, just Negroid, not necessarily Europid though influence is probable in my opinion. Ancient Saharan groups with intermediary status or at least tendencies towards Europid specialisation, in any case no typical Negrids. |
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Post by magneto on Jan 4, 2006 20:44:58 GMT -5
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 4, 2006 21:02:41 GMT -5
They look like Nilotids with slight Aethiopoid influence...could be Tutsis going after the facial features and are in the wider Negroid range without being typical, fully Negrids.
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 5, 2006 3:02:13 GMT -5
"partly settled and characterized by non-negroid features of possible caucasoid origin" This is utter nonsense, this citation came from a 1965 book from Stenning at a time when Fulani were still thought to be Hamites[read Caucasoids] of a non-Negroid origin, which is of course outdated debunked anthropology. As for the HLA data, another HLA study said Greeks were close to sub-Saharan Africans, so go figure. Paternally, the Fula of Nigeria and Niger show no "non-Negroid" non-African lineages [Cruciani,2004] and only 18% ancient West Eurasian lineages[Salas et tal,2004] which equally 9% Eurasian ancestry. Stenning, D. J. (1965) in Peoples of Africa, ed. Gibbs As I said above, since I saw Fulani myself, I know that they are largely Negrid, so no surprise, but still there are at least individuals to explain and this higher percentage of such individuals "made them famous" - obviously thats not fully cleared up now. Taking small random samples alone might be enough to clear that up anyway. But whereas the Fulani show just minor influence, never said something else, the Tubu are another matter, what are you saying about them: Teda: The real point about them is that they are no real full Negrids in the narrower sense, just Negroid, not necessarily Europid though influence is probable in my opinion. Ancient Saharan groups with intermediary status or at least tendencies towards Europid specialisation, in any case no typical Negrids. The Tibbu and Teda are Nilo-Saharan speaking NEgroids and probably the oldest remnant population in the Sahara. They are fiercely warlike and often do *NOT* mix outside of their group. L. Cabot Briggs, who studied the Teda, said they were Negroids with Berber blood but no DNA test was ever done on the Teda/Tibbu and there is no evidence of any Caucasoid nor "Ethiopiod" influence in their ancestry. Having a high a narrow nose does *NOT* an Ethiopoid make. And what is typical Negroid? there is *NO* such thing as a "typical Negroid" I've been arguing this point ad naseum in this forum and people still don't get it, those with so-called extreme features are just that, an extreme form of sub-Saharan, just like Khoisan represent an extreme form of sub-Saharan, there is no proof that the extreme "Negroid" type is the typical or unmixed type. thats jargon and mystification from an old anthroplogical era that based their classifications on so-called typical or idealized types then subsuming that every deviation was due to mixture of an "Europoid" or some other element. Elongated and Nilotic types are just as typical "Negroid" as the so-called broad or Sudanid type. |
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 5, 2006 3:19:40 GMT -5
<<They are fiercely warlike and often do *NOT* mix outside of their group>>
Your key word is "OFTEN".
<<L. Cabot Briggs, who studied the Teda, said they were Negroids with Berber blood but no DNA test was ever done on the Teda/Tibbu and there is no evidence of any Caucasoid nor "Ethiopiod" influence in their ancestry>>
And their is no evidence to say they aren't mixed either then. However he mentioned that they have Berber blood,Berbers are Caucasoid,so thats evidence that they mixed. Some of them do exhibit Europoid cranial form and/or traits,and I' am sure they mixed through the centuries to varying degree's,thats rather a fair assumption in the least.
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 5, 2006 3:42:48 GMT -5
<<They are fiercely warlike and often do *NOT* mix outside of their group>> Your key word is "OFTEN". <<L. Cabot Briggs, who studied the Teda, said they were Negroids with Berber blood but no DNA test was ever done on the Teda/Tibbu and there is no evidence of any Caucasoid nor "Ethiopiod" influence in their ancestry>> And their is no evidence to say they aren't mixed either then. However he mentioned that they have Berber blood,Berbers are Caucasoid,so thats evidence that they mixed. Some of them do exhibit Europoid cranial form and/or traits,and I' am sure they mixed through the centuries to varying degree's,thats rather a fair assumption in the least. You missed the point of Briggs' statement and he never did a study on Teda genetics, he just made the broad statement that they are Negroid, but with Berber blood. I have his book about tribes in the Sahara, not you, so who are you to interpret what he said? Teda are very territorial warlike peoples and do not mix with others except maybe other Teda but no outsiders like Berbers. They don't have any "Europoid cranial features, why does everyone think a narrow head and narrow nose constitutes Europoid as if so-called Europoids have a monopoly on such traits? Pick up Briggs book before you make assumptions. |
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 5, 2006 4:52:53 GMT -5
<<I have his book about tribes in the Sahara, not you, so who are you to interpret what he said? Teda are very territorial warlike peoples and do not mix with others except maybe other Teda but no outsiders like Berbers. They don't have any "Europoid cranial features, why does everyone think a narrow head and narrow nose constitutes Europoid as if so-called Europoids have a monopoly on such traits? Pick up Briggs book before you make >>
Who am I? Someone far more brighter and intelligent than yourself,that is certain. Who are you the wanna-be self-indulgent guru on Africa,lol!
Bass you really need lay off the drugs,your snotty arrogant attitude and racist behavior gets the better of you every time,and prevents decent discussion. I'am accurately interpreting what he said their,while you are mis-leading what he wote,by over emphasizing words to suit your opinion and push your agenda/viewpoint .
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 5, 2006 5:39:09 GMT -5
<<I have his book about tribes in the Sahara, not you, so who are you to interpret what he said? Teda are very territorial warlike peoples and do not mix with others except maybe other Teda but no outsiders like Berbers. They don't have any "Europoid cranial features, why does everyone think a narrow head and narrow nose constitutes Europoid as if so-called Europoids have a monopoly on such traits? Pick up Briggs book before you make >> Who am I? Someone far more brighter and intelligent than yourself,that is certain. Who are you the wanna-be self-indulgent guru on Africa,lol! Bass you really need lay off the drugs,your snotty arrogant attitude and racist behavior gets the better of you every time,and prevents decent discussion. I'am accurately interpreting what he said their,while you are mis-leading what he wote,by over emphasizing words to suit your opinion and push your agenda/viewpoint . You're not accuratekly interpreting jack what he said because you don't even have the book for reference. I'm not wssting my time with a troll who hasn't even read the book. The same Briggs said the Moors of mauritania are Berbers with Negroid blood, he was contrasting physical type with a perceived blood group frequency, thats how much you don't know. |
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