Post by vgambler33 on Dec 29, 2005 13:14:12 GMT -5
Extent of Berber Admixture in Europe
Berbers are distinguished by a particular subclade of HG21 [or E*(xE3)] which is labelled 25.2 in . In contrast, Europeans and Arabs have higher levels of another clade, 25.1. Thus, while Berbers have 71.0% of 25.2, Europeans have at most 5.6% in a sample from Lombardy, while Spaniards have at most 2.2% (with the exception of an isolated population group of known mixed origins), the French have 4.1%, most Sardinians lack it, while one has it at a frequency of 2.1%, and only one of three Sicilian groups (from Sciacca) has it at a frequincy of 2.3%.
These results are a strong indication that most of HG21 and its subclades in Europe is of ancient origin and not associated with recent absorption of North African elements, which can be quantified at less than 5%. Note also that since data on the origin of HG25.2 are not available, it may be possible that part of it may be of prehistoric origin, i.e., predating the Roman and Medieval periods.
 Human Immunology Volume 62, Issue 9 , September 2001, Pages 871-884
Post by Drooperdoo on Dec 29, 2005 16:01:57 GMT -5
I knew that Berber admixture in Spain was surprisingly minimal. (For centuries, they assumed that Iberians and Berbers were almost one-and-the-same. Since genetics emerged as a science, they learned that--as Cavalli-Sforza put it--the Strait of Gibraltar was a surprisingly effective barrier to gene-flow. Furthermore, it was discovered that people entered Iberia from the North, via continental Europe, rather than from the south.) All that stated, I'm still rather surprised that Italians have more Berber admixture than Spaniards or Portuguese. How to interpret the data, though?
(Are they saying that the minimal amounts of people who have the genetic markers are descendants of literal Berbers, or is it more like: They are from an extremely early pan-Mediterranean flow of people (and the Berbers are just one branch of that early flow--in which case, the Euro-Meds aren't literally descended from Berbers?)
Post by Crimson Guard on Dec 29, 2005 16:11:22 GMT -5
Haha I'am more Carthaginian Berber than you Droop,(From Sciacca)where now my dual ancestry claus shall be invoked,this time as a Greco-Phoenician...I will go to Tunisia & Libya and call upon my Tunis-Libyan brethren...then get stoned and shot..I kid! ;D