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Post by jojoscircus on Feb 14, 2005 20:05:25 GMT -5
In my mother's Lithuanian Jewish family there are both the mediterranean type and the slavic, red haired type. Even if the dark Mediterranean type didn't get to Lithuania until after the Spanish Inquisition, I believe this was more than enough time (roughly 500 years) for the two Jewish populations to mix with one another. And you can't go strictly on looks to gauge whether a person is Sephardic. Fran Drescher could have a Woody Allen type grandfather.
John Stewart looked really different in his younger years. Did he get some rhinoplasy or what?
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Post by Solomon on Feb 14, 2005 20:12:10 GMT -5
Guys, reality check: Ashkenazim are European/Middle Eastern hybrids. I mean this quite literally. There are some who lean more toward the European side, and some who lean toward the Middle Eastern side. There are some who are right in the middle!
Woody Allen looks Jewish. Look at his nose, for crying out loud! That's a Near Eastern feature.
BTW, anti-Semitism was rampant during the Jack the Ripper slayings. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if those two Jews were framed.
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Post by k5125 on Feb 14, 2005 20:44:41 GMT -5
Jeff Goldblum, Albert Einstein, Fran Drescher, Judd Hirsch, and Adam Goldberg are sephardic just because they are dark?
lol. No offense, but thats crazy. Sephardic definately isn't a racial type. Just because a jew is dark, doesn't mean he is sephardic.
There is a reason why say Jeff Goldblum is so dark. Its because he is of middle eastern descent. As solomon said some ashkenazis are semitic, while others are more european.
And Oded Fehr...unfortunately there is no proof either way to my knowledge what background he is, but I have heard he is ashkenazi. I am not sure how much validity there is to that claim, but I don't find it all that surprising. Classifying him as "sephardic" simply because of his looks is nonsense.
Have you ever heard of the dark yid? Its a common stereotype, and for good reason, a lot of yiddish speaking jews are very semitic looking.
And woody allen, I think he is a perfect example of a semitic-european hybrid due to mixing.
I'm sorry, lol, but I still can't get over this Jeff Goldblum or Albert Einstein being Sephardic.
Thats just so ridiculous. Thats like saying my family is sephardic because they are dark. Our original family name is Sacher...I think its german. Our ancestors were most likely Roman Hebrews who moved up into Germany around the 9th century AD. We aren't descended from Spanish Hebrews. Our ancestors didn't speak a word of ladino.
There were two groups of Hebrews that went to europe. The sephardim and the ashkenazim. Both were originally dark. To this day, the sephardim are usually still always dark, while the ashkenazim are sometimes light or dark because of mixing with lighter europeans.
Any european looks are due to intermarriage with europeans. This is well known.
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Post by Solomon on Feb 14, 2005 20:57:11 GMT -5
Excellent post, k. More often than not, you can see Middle Eastern traits in Ashkenazim, even if they have red hair and pasty skin.
Also, Oded Fehr is most certainly an Ashkenazi. A short bio from jewhoo:
There are tons of Ashkenazim with the same general appearance.
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Post by k5125 on Feb 14, 2005 21:03:04 GMT -5
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 14, 2005 21:06:17 GMT -5
Wow....he looks very Middle Eastern. Dave Schwimmer, from Friends, is also an Ashkenazi Jew with some very Semitic traits.
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Post by mike2 on Feb 14, 2005 21:18:24 GMT -5
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Post by k5125 on Feb 14, 2005 21:26:30 GMT -5
He looks like a typical mixed ashkenazi jew. I can see his semitic traits. Kissinger looks very semitic in my opinion. But you are right, the rest look ultra european.
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Post by mike2 on Feb 14, 2005 21:28:52 GMT -5
Yes, there is definitely a middle ground between the two extremes.
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Post by Solomon on Feb 14, 2005 21:34:43 GMT -5
Woody Allen does not look ultra European. Neither does Mel Brooks or Meyer Lansky. They both have 'Armenoid' (god, I hate that word) features.
No shit.
If you knew a little bit about population genetics I might take you more seriously.
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Post by k5125 on Feb 14, 2005 21:35:40 GMT -5
Woody Allen does not look ultra European. Neither does Mel Brooks or Meyer Lansky. They both have 'Armenoid' (god, I hate that word) features. No shit. If you knew a little bit about population genetics I might take you a little more seriously. Yeah I forgot about Mel Brooks, he has a definate semitic influence.
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Post by mike2 on Feb 14, 2005 21:39:24 GMT -5
Woody Allen does not look ultra European. Neither does Mel Brooks or Meyer Lansky. They both have 'Armenoid' (god, I hate that word) features. Ding ding ding! If you knew a little bit about population genetics I might take you a little more seriously. Sorry, I'm an old school physical anthropology guy. Genetics must burn!
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Post by Solomon on Feb 14, 2005 21:44:00 GMT -5
I know where you're going with this, and you're wrong. I kinda figured. This is exactly why you can't be taken seriously. Studies on Jewish genetics reinforce my argument completely.
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Post by mike2 on Feb 14, 2005 21:50:21 GMT -5
Did I disagree with your opinion or something?
I'm just curious as to when you think the Armenoid type materialized in the Jews, both Sephard and Ash. Prior to the diaspora? During the diaspora? I'm not a Jewologist, just a casual observer and I'm interested in what you have to say.
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Post by Solomon on Feb 14, 2005 22:28:27 GMT -5
I find myself having the same debate every week here at dodona. Sorry if I came off like a jerk.
I don't buy into the 'Armenoid' thing. I think Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians and Jews are 'Asiatic' Dinarics, if you will. 'Armenoid' sort of implies that Jews are akin to Armenians and other Caucasians, which we're not.
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