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Post by asdf on Jan 27, 2006 10:59:39 GMT -5
Well, maybe 1/10 Mongoloid due to the Uralic admixture.... Culturally speaking we are not half as strange as some people - mainly Swedes - seem to think. For instance, Finnish towns could be anywhere in Northern Europe. Helsinki especially has a lot in common with Northern German towns, and not solely because of a post war construction boom. murphee: The pasties in the picture are delicious. Variations of them are found all over the Eastern Finland. The crust is made of rye, and the filling is either rice cooked in milk or mashed potatoes. I've seen old Carelian ladies making pasties thinnest crust in few seconds. There is no such thing as "Uralic" admixture. Uralic is a linguistic term and Finns certainly aren't 10% Mongoloid.
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Atreyu
Junior Member
I am Atreyu with the Plains people who hunt the purple buffalo
Posts: 79
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Post by Atreyu on Jan 27, 2006 11:05:40 GMT -5
Well, maybe 1/10 Mongoloid due to the Uralic admixture.... Culturally speaking we are not half as strange as some people - mainly Swedes - seem to think. For instance, Finnish towns could be anywhere in Northern Europe. Helsinki especially has a lot in common with Northern German towns, and not solely because of a post war construction boom. murphee: The pasties in the picture are delicious. Variations of them are found all over the Eastern Finland. The crust is made of rye, and the filling is either rice cooked in milk or mashed potatoes. I\\\'ve seen old Carelian ladies making pasties thinnest crust in few seconds. There is no such thing as "Uralic" admixture. Uralic is a linguistic term and Finns certainly aren\\\'t 10% Mongoloid. I like how you keep butting in,as if you know what you are talking about. dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/archives/000465.htmlForrester thinks he\'s slick
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Post by Educate Me on Jan 27, 2006 11:35:05 GMT -5
human2 and dienekes discussed this not a long time ago (3 or 4 months).
If I recall correctly both were interpreting the same paper in different ways, I think Dienekes thought uralics were their own thing and Human 2 thought they were hibrids. Cant find the thread now, maybe it was in the blog.
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Holger
Full Member
Even my typing is considerably richer than yao!
Posts: 141
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Post by Holger on Jan 27, 2006 11:38:37 GMT -5
What are the Finns? In my unscientific view, the main ingredient of the folk stock is mainly Cromagnids altered, perhaps by cold-adaptation and in some cases Sami-admixture is rather evident. The so-called "Baltid-Finn" with its low-rooted nose has a striking resemblance to this reconstruction of a Cro-Magnoid Rather comprehensive anthropological studies of Finland have been made in Finland (Niilo Pesonen etc.), however those are often overlooked in these forums over older less-thural works by Coon and others, which used rather old sources (like Westerlund etc.). Pesonen's main points were, that the allegedly snub-nosed brachycepahlic Finns were mainly mesocephalic and straight nosed alll around the country (east being slightly brachycephalic,). Of course now someone couldl say that study is "biased" and un-sound whereas the same person will have no problem in believing studies of Swedes done by Lundman ;-) Finn's can come in all shapes and sizes, that's called diversity. These native SE-Finns for example don't really fit the Lundmanists or Coonists scheme of Finland. And coming from the most long-faced hawk-nosed Dinaroid-looking lineage of SE-Finns myself (Nyslott/Savonlinna region and NO, the guy above is not me I'm much better looking), I guess I should quickly find myself some very recent foreign admixture, so none of the religiously "ROE"-reading people will be upset or they're view of the world shattered.
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Post by human2 on Jan 27, 2006 11:41:22 GMT -5
The Finns are illogically singled out. I can just go on and on with Irish actors: Cillian Murphy Caroline Rhea Mary McDonnel Robin Tunney
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Post by human2 on Jan 27, 2006 11:49:58 GMT -5
What are the Finns? In my unscientific view, the main ingredient of the folk stock is mainly Cromagnids altered Yes, only Uralic people have mtDNA U4, which is UP... and not from the East. Also, the Cro-Magnons had broad, flatish faces with relatively flat noses. That study that picked up the third element... 3rd element is just the Cro-Magnon stratum. Such people were still the majority in the mesolithic in many areas, not just Finland. Finns have the highest % of blondism, so how can they be that mixed? They do have some East Eurasian mtDNA lineages (I'm leaving out paternal lineages because it's too complicated and distorted). They have less Eastern mtDNA than Iranians. If anything, the Finns are among the most indigenous people in Europe. This AFAIK is Brno II, which isn't classified as "Cro-Magnon" but as "proto-Med".. whatever that means.
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Post by human2 on Jan 27, 2006 11:57:13 GMT -5
human2 and dienekes discussed this not a long time ago (3 or 4 months). If I recall correctly both were interpreting the same paper in different ways, I think Dienekes thought uralics were their own thing and Human 2 thought they were hibrids. Cant find the thread now, maybe it was in the blog. The disagreement is mainly on what the 3rd element is. I say the third element is just "Cro-Magnon" Up European. Dienekes thinks it's a mysterious race.
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Holger
Full Member
Even my typing is considerably richer than yao!
Posts: 141
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Post by Holger on Jan 27, 2006 12:01:20 GMT -5
[/img] Robin Tunney [/quote] Or are they? Choose the row of Finns from this plate.
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harri
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by harri on Jan 27, 2006 12:02:09 GMT -5
All those hockey players in the first post don't make a particulary good representation of Finns at large. A pretty good site for photos is Irc-Galleria: in the top row click on satunnainen and you'll get a photo of any random user. Most users also list their location, which is quite helpful. Unfortunately majority of the users are quite young, so the facial features haven't quite settled in yet. Spend a half an hour in that gallery and you'll be much better versed in Finns.
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Holger
Full Member
Even my typing is considerably richer than yao!
Posts: 141
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Post by Holger on Jan 27, 2006 12:03:53 GMT -5
All those hockey players in the first post don't make a particulary good representation of Finns at large. A pretty good site for photos is Irc-Galleria: in the top row click on satunnainen and you'll get a photo of any random user. Most users also list their location, which is quite helpful. Unfortunately majority of the users are quite young, so the facial features haven't quite settled in yet. Spend a half an hour in that gallery and you'll be much better versed in Finns. People on Irc-Galleria are mainly youth under 18, I think Irc-Galleria is as representative of Finland as www.snyggast.se is of Sweden. Not very...
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Post by human2 on Jan 27, 2006 12:17:14 GMT -5
Or are they? Choose the row of Finns from this plate. It's hard to objectively say what they are. Facial features can evoke an emotive respond from human beings. It's undoubtedly true that the Finns have some Siberian blood in them but I don't know how much can be attributed to them accurately. Where do you draw the line?
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 27, 2006 12:25:42 GMT -5
Human2 wheres that real Cro-Magnon-man reconstruction i showed you around a year ago? You still have it?
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Post by human2 on Jan 27, 2006 12:33:52 GMT -5
Human2 wheres that real Cro-Magnon-man reconstruction i showed you around a year ago? You still have it? Nah.
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Post by asdf on Jan 27, 2006 12:37:04 GMT -5
Uralic doesn't = 100% Mongoloid and that's the point.
If you want to feel cool and own people on internet forums talking about the esoteric, why not try learning how to type correctly?
i lke how u kep butting , in .
Uh-huh...
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Post by Ilmatar on Jan 27, 2006 12:39:59 GMT -5
There is no such thing as "Uralic" admixture. Uralic is a linguistic term and Finns certainly aren't 10% Mongoloid. Sforza seems to think that the genetic heritage of the Finns is 90 % "European". Now, tell me what would the remaining 10 % be? Up to 60 % (there seem to be very little recent data on the matter published in the net, though) of the Finnish y-chromosome dna falls under the haplogroup N3. While I personally agree with Siiri Rootsi and think that N3 either originated or was present in the NE Europe soon after the last glacial maximum, haplogroup N originated in Asia, though possibly before racialisation. Uralic is indeed a linguistic term. However, the fact that Finns, who are living several thousand chilometers west of Urals do speak a language that is related - even if very distantly - to languages spoken in that area is interesting. In order for a language to spread there must have been some kind of contact between people. Now, there actually is plenty of archeological evidence of contacts between people living in Finland with the people living in Urals. We can, of course discuss about the racial composition of the Uralic and even Altaic people especially in the Bronze Age. However, it's possible they were mixed. Therefore, I'd say it's very likely that Finns have some Uralic or even Siberid admixture. However, it's either deep (we are talking about 8.500 - 7.000 YBP) or more recent, but neglectable.
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