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Post by buddyrydell on Feb 22, 2005 20:44:41 GMT -5
Most people where I'm from know that Spaniards are white and look like other southern Europeans. I imagine in areas like the deep South and especially the rural areas of the Southwest where there is immigration from Mexico, the native whites think that Spaniards look like Mexicans just because of the language thing.
Still though, I'm often surprised that there are a good number of Americans who don't know that Spaniards are European and are different from Mexicans. Bottom line, the classification of "Hispanic" is dumb and means nothing save a common language. Usually, when people say a person "looks" Hispanic, they mean Mexican mestizo, though I suppose on the East Coast it could mean mulatto since most Latin Americans there are Puerto Rican, Dominican, or from other Caribbean nations.
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Post by Quintos on Feb 22, 2005 21:48:07 GMT -5
"Which reminds me…I met a Mexican in Guadalajara Mexico a few years back the guy had blond hair blue eyes, (you would be surprised at the number of white people in this city, cute white girls too) and one of the first things I asked him was if he was a Spaniard, he was quick to respond and seemed a bit offended and responded, “Not all Mexicans are Indians”. hahahahah LOL "
Those are probably more recent European immigrants from England or France or more likely left over Spaniards from the conquest period. I keep on hearing about how abundent whites are in Mexico and how so in so region is white ive been to Baja part of Mexico it appears very non-white amerindian. However its important to note that Spaniards intermarried with the amerindian population. As for the racial classification page it is clearly redicolous to say the least oh and did you guys know Enrique Englesius is half Phillipino.
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Post by vela on Feb 22, 2005 22:54:39 GMT -5
The question in this thread is incorrectly formulated.
America can't consider if Spaniards are white or not because America is not a person, but a country.
The question should be: Do You consider Spaniards as white?
And even that question is a generalization because, no doubt there's an average characteristic shared by most Spaniards, I'm almost sure that they are not clones of each other and that they run the gamut from ebony to ivory! You would have to take case by case to express an opinion.
What I've noticed, though, is that most Spaniards are really pissed off when confused for Latin Americans. It's an offense that few can easily tolerate. Why, I dont know! Somehow a simple clarification is never enough. Don't dare make the same mistake or else!
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Post by Quintos on Feb 23, 2005 3:21:58 GMT -5
The question was generated for the purpose of asking people on this forum what the general opinion of American society is I used "America" to represent the general American living in an Ameican society and his opinion on Spaniards.
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Post by Human on Feb 23, 2005 4:16:59 GMT -5
Even in the racially dumb rural PA, most people consider Spaniards white. There are the exceptions though. Some hillbillies think anyone from outside of the USA is not white, even though they are probably 1/4 Amerindian. ;D this is perfectly right. i fully agree.
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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 17:12:33 GMT -5
Quintos, I wouldn’t say that there was an overwhelming amount of the population being white in Guadalajara, but there are whites in Mexico. Don’t let Ensenada, or Rosario, TJ or the Cabos fool you, go deep inside Mexico (the Metropolitan cities) you’ll be surprised at the number of white people.
@vela: I could see that some Spaniards may get upset at being mistaken for a Latin American, this only occurs in the U.S. though. (Never anywhere else, including Latin America) Since hearing the Spanish language one naturally will assume that the person perhaps may come from the most nearest nation, which speaks it; i.e. Mexico, or other nations in the Americas.
Spaniards have a reputation for being very proud at being Spanish, this maybe a Spaniard’s greatest vice. In fact, this pride can extend into regions of Spain, some Spaniards are proud at being, Aragones, Gallegos, Cantabrios, Austurianos, Catalanes, Vascos..etc
Sometimes a Spaniard may not like to be called a Spaniard, some people in my family back in Barcelona only speak Catalan at home and encourage me to speak it. And if you spoke to them in Spanish they would answer you, but remind you that you are not in Madrid that you are in Catalunya and you should try using some Catalan phrases. The same goes for some in the Basque country and some in Galicia. So next time you see a Spaniard annoyed at being called a Latin American perhaps it’s not fair to assume that the Spaniard corrects you because he is putting down Latin American as a whole, but wanting you to know what he is, rather than being taken for what he is not.
Just like a Canadian being mistaken for an American Citizen, I don’t think he loathes all Americans it’s just that he happens to be proud of being Canadian and he will tell you so.
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Post by vela on Feb 23, 2005 23:32:30 GMT -5
@vela: I could see that some Spaniards may get upset at being mistaken for a Latin American, this only occurs in the U.S. though. (Never anywhere else, including Latin America) Since hearing the Spanish language one naturally will assume that the person perhaps may come from the most nearest nation, which speaks it; i.e. Mexico, or other nations in the Americas. Spaniards have a reputation for being very proud at being Spanish, this maybe a Spaniard’s greatest vice. In fact, this pride can extend into regions of Spain, some Spaniards are proud at being, Aragones, Gallegos, Cantabrios, Austurianos, Catalanes, Vascos..etc Sometimes a Spaniard may not like to be called a Spaniard, some people in my family back in Barcelona only speak Catalan at home and encourage me to speak it. And if you spoke to them in Spanish they would answer you, but remind you that you are not in Madrid that you are in Catalunya and you should try using some Catalan phrases. The same goes for some in the Basque country and some in Galicia. So next time you see a Spaniard annoyed at being called a Latin American perhaps it’s not fair to assume that the Spaniard corrects you because he is putting down Latin American as a whole, but wanting you to know what he is, rather than being taken for what he is not. Just like a Canadian being mistaken for an American Citizen, I don’t think he loathes all Americans it’s just that he happens to be proud of being Canadian and he will tell you so. Interesting (and valid) points, Visigodo. I think many would agree that when we use generalizations we are more prone to err in our judgement. In the end what matters the most is self-knowledge and self-acceptance of who you are.
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Post by Tautamo on Feb 24, 2005 8:53:20 GMT -5
I notice the American media constantly potraying Spanairds as swarthy guitar playing latino characters. Like what movie are you talking about? Ok first off "hispanic" is not about race but language.read any American census.stop the paranoia its not only Americans who potray Iberians like that.Most if not all European countries do the same. (i forgot what show it was called but they had this norwegian guy go to spain to meet up a few friends and take a guess what color his wig was... Use math for this answer.In American most people who speak Spanish are from Spain's old colonies.and most of those people have some Iberian blood so they will look sorta like Iberians............. trust me i understand what your saying.Hell al pachino played a peurto rican in carlitos way! does that mean he is peurto rican? hahaha trust me im anglophobe i rather hear spanish from a mexican than english from a redneck. oh the italian thing? well first off italians dont speak spanish.if you havent notice The EXTREME RIGHT are the ones who claiming Iberians arent white!!!!! both here in America and Europe! and they also say the same thing about Italians!!!!!!!! even the italians cant get along with each other! half the country (the extremists) hate the other half! thank god that type of bullshit isnt as widespread in Iberia (Spain and Portugal) but it does happen
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Post by nordicyouth on Feb 24, 2005 17:10:26 GMT -5
Spanish, I believe are largely considered White. Mestizos are not. However, there are people of Mestizo heritage that have seemingly Nordic features, and of Spanish heritage also obviously. Remember that the denziens in the hills of the Appalachians and Blue Mountains in the United States consider THEMSELVES to be the only TRUE Whites in existence, this despite the fact that they probably have significant Amerindian and/or Negroid ancestry.
*There is no textbook on opinions regarding race, ethnicity, nationality, and phenotype. Some trends are more overt and have greater support than others e.g. German attitudes towards Jews, Gypsies, and Slavs.
One cannot get a proper glimpse of American opinion through the mass media, because it leaves out Bush's beloved 'Heartland,' in favour of either the Eastern or Western Seaboard. Americans from either coast claim that no one lives in between and that the opinions of those that do are irrelevant. ROFL. Tell that to the democrats.
It's time the American mass media stop using the 'hill-billy' as a scapegoat for all of America's fears and hatreds. Firstly, the alleged 'hill-billys' are small in number, and secondly they take no part in American society - hence the isolationism.
The real keepers of the torch of fear and hate are your average White person on the street, and their action or inaction largely takes the form of quiet complicity. Note that this was all that was required of the vast majority of Germans when Hitler and the few card-carrying Nazi Party members in the country embarked on their 'final solutions' for Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, etc.
If you're not perceived as White, you can never have access to that part of Whiteness that regards the 'Other' with fear and hatred. For some Whites, Southern Europeans are cousins, for others, they are brothers. Some believe in the one-drop-rule, others strictly look at phenotype. Some are White Nationalists, others are Nordicists.
Fortunately, due to my phenotype and nationality (and to some extent my personality), I have easy access to those unspoken feelings that people, in this case Whites, possess. I realize everyone has similar feelings, but here I'm speaking only of Whites. As with those that joined the Nazi Party, the Whites I'm referring to are a cross-section of society, they are not the impoverished, ignorant, and often unintelligent gangs of neo-nazis (another scapegoat, like the hill-billy).
These people are essentially sleeper cells, ready to participate or at least be complicit in a totalitarian revolt against multiculturalism, immigration, multi-racialism, etc.
Are they the majority? I don't know. If the majority of Whites would be ready to be complicit in ethnic or racial cleansing, then it's a moot point. With all the socio-economic divisions (class, gender, race, ethnicity) pressuring one another, I firmly believe America especially is a tinderbox. And far from guaranteeing substantive equality to non-Whites, multiculturalism is simply fragmenting the West further. Note that atomization of the German people occurred directly before Hitler curled up those splayed fingers into a fist.
An economics prof. of mine said that either the Western world would become 'free-er' or totalitarianism would rear its ugly head. I'm an optimist, but the trends point to the latter. A seemingly peaceful revolution against unregulated Capitalism will turn into a free-for-all.
That's my two cents...
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Post by Anja on Feb 24, 2005 18:08:36 GMT -5
i like to think that the younger generations will change this trend...schools are more multiethnic than ever before in this country, and kids are learning to adapt to multiculturalism from a young age. although this is not the case for all places, in many, multiethnic schools are helping establish intercultural ties...and in a sense, assimilating, whether that is good or bad.
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