white versus dark, north/south and rye vs wheat

[berschneider]

This forum does not have a section on culture where this thread probably belongs. Indirectly it has to do with the environement but is mainly a joke.

So, blond vs swarthy people. North vs South. Rye vs Wheat.

Culturally Europe can be split into western and eastern parts by religion – either Latin or Greek (Poland is Latin, Russia is Greek). That’s clear. Europe can also be divided into formerly civilized vs formerly barbaric parts along borders of the Roman Empire and by traditions of viticulture.

Here is an interesting pattern I thought of. It clearly divides Europeans into two camps. It is what they eat or wheat versus rye. Bread is the basic food of all Europeans. There are nations which have strong preference for rye bread versus those who prefer wheat any time of the day. Generally speaking, all supposedly“really white” people (the blondish race) prefer rye bread while it seems Mediterraneans like their wheat. To put it differently – light people like dark bread while the darkies prefer white bread. My ancestors were rye fans and I still love diversity of rye based breads of Northern Europe, particularly of Germany and Scandinavia, but Poland has some great sorts. While Northern Europe’s rye bread diversity is great, Southern Europe’s wheat bread is uniform and is not much different from country to country. Of course wheat breads made inroads into dark bread territory in the last two hundred years because white bread’s taste is smooth, not bitter, has few nuances, unsophisticated and is cheaper to make. Stereotypes are deceiving. Except for Mediterranean coast and the South, historic France is firmly in the North European (dark bread) territory (http://www.poilane.fr). The famous Parisian baguette is a rather recent cultural import from Austria.

Let’s see (add your country or countries you know), bread preferences:

Norway – rye, dark
Sweden – rye, dark
Denmark– rye, dark
Finland – rye, dark
Russia, – rye, dark
Poland,– rye, dark
Germany, – rye, dark
England (historically dark)
Netherlands,– rye, dark

France (half and half, border zone)
Austria (half and half, border zone)

Hungary (wheat)
Yugoslavia (wheat, white?)
Italy (wheat, white)
Spain (wheat, white)
Portugal (wheat, white)

[Melnorme]

I think it makes more sense to put this here.

[Silveira]

In Portugal corn bread (pão de milho and broa) is as popular as wheat bread, especially in northern Portugal.

broa:

[executiona9]

So, blond vs swarthy people. North vs South. Rye vs Wheat.

Generally speaking, all supposedly“really white” people (the blondish race) prefer rye bread while it seems Mediterraneans like their wheat. To put it differently – light people like dark bread while the darkies prefer white bread

Norway – rye, dark
Sweden – rye, dark
Denmark– rye, dark
Finland – rye, dark
Russia, – rye, dark
Poland,– rye, dark
Germany, – rye, dark
England (historically dark)
Netherlands,– rye, dark

France (half and half, border zone)
Austria (half and half, border zone)

Hungary (wheat)
Yugoslavia (wheat, white?)
Italy (wheat, white)
Spain (wheat, white)
Portugal (wheat, white)

Most german, english and dutch people have brown hair, not blond like you seem to be saying. You cant compare germans/english/dutch people with Scandinavians (most Scandinavians are blond).

[berschneider]

executiona9 said:

Most german, english and dutch people have brown hair, not blond like you seem to be saying. You cant compare germans/english/dutch people with Scandinavians (most Scandinavians are blond).

there is no such thing as blondish race either.

Take it easy - the whole thing is a joke.

[berschneider]

Silveira said:

In Portugal corn bread (pão de milho and broa) is as popular as wheat bread, especially in northern Portugal.

Well, it doesn't look like rye bread to me. Here is one (and that's not the darkest variety by any means)




I mean there are certain preference patterns of bread that is wheat based and white versus rye and dark. Corn bread (if maize is the base) is a different story since corn is a recent import from Americas.

By the way, that Portuguese bread of yours looks delicious.

White versus dark bread is not the only culinary divide of Europe. I can also think of butter versus oil in cooking as another partition.

[Silveira]

Well, it doesn't look like rye bread to me. Here is one (and that's not the darkest variety by any means)

I am aware that maize bread is different from rye bread. My intention was to point out that there exists breads that are neither made from wheat or rye. In tropical countries such as Brazil they make bread, cakes, etc. out of mandioc, for example.

Cornbread (brown-yellowish colour) is just one example. Portugal does not have an ideal climate or soil conditions for wheat cultivation and has historically always been deficient in wheat production. Corn was a substitute which the Portuguese brought from the Americas in the 1500s.

By the way, the dark German rye bread is available in Portugal at LIDL stores, which is a German chain.

[murphee]

Hard to say. I like all bread.

[Kukul-Kan]

Something similar could be said about Mestizos in Mexico. Light Mestizos from the North prefer to eat wheat ‘tortillas’ while Indomestizos from the South tend to eat regular corn ‘tortillas’, which personally I prefer. Corn bread, which unlike other types of bread here, is usually cooked in the house, is popular among white Mexicans in central Mexico but not so much among Mestizos from the same area.


Mexican corn bread

[murphee]

I find corn tortillas much tastier than wheat tortillas.
Enchiladas filled with cheese, peppers and onions covered with verde sauce is a favorite dish of mine.

[berschneider]

Silveira said:

I am aware that maize bread is different from rye bread. My intention was to point out that there exists breads that are neither made from wheat or rye. In tropical countries such as Brazil they make bread, cakes, etc. out of mandioc, for example.

Cornbread (brown-yellowish colour) is just one example. Portugal does not have an ideal climate or soil conditions for wheat cultivation and has historically always been deficient in wheat production. Corn was a substitute which the Portuguese brought from the Americas in the 1500s.

By the way, the dark German rye bread is available in Portugal at LIDL stores, which is a German chain.

Right, I tried corn bread when visiting US south. It’s not bad at all but tastes a bit odd. It tastes like corn that’s how it tastes!

I never realized the Portuguese began cultivating American corn as far back 1500s.

[berschneider]

murphee said:

I find corn tortillas much tastier than wheat tortillas.
Enchiladas filled with cheese, peppers and onions covered with verde sauce is a favorite dish of mine.

I like Mexican food although some dishes are way too messy:)

[Scoob]

Very interesting observations.

In the USA, bread type is considered a strong marker of social class.

Lower class "white trash" eat a lot of Wonder Bread and other similar "white" bread.

Upper class, yuppies, etc tend more to eat fancy organic breads, wheat breads, French breads, etc.

[berschneider]

Scoob said:

Very interesting observations.

In the USA, bread type is considered a strong marker of social class.

Lower class "white trash" eat a lot of Wonder Bread and other similar "white" bread.

Upper class, yuppies, etc tend more to eat fancy organic breads, wheat breads, French breads, etc.

Right, but in America this class based divide is fairly recent. I am talking about division in Europe that is probably 1000 or perhaps 2000 years old (or may be older? - rye versus wheat, dark versus white, butter versus oil). In the US the mushy wonder bread appeared in the 1920s or 30s? It’s not an ancient difference. Besides, I think some urban groups of relatively recent newcomers, like the Italians, kept on using Italian bakeries and did not “adopt” repulsive Wonder bread.

I associate Wonderbread and twinkies and this kind of cuisine with real American-Americans, both white and black. I think the so called “gourmet” bakeries that actually bake real bread are relatively recent phenomenon. The really rich and snobby species of Americans buy their bread from Poilane bakery and similar bakeries in Paris. It’s shipped by DHL or FedEx or similar courier service from France overnight (40 dollars a loaf?)

[Scoob]

berschneider said:

Right, but in America this class based divide is fairly recent. I am talking about division in Europe that is probably 1000 or perhaps 2000 years old (or may be older? - rye versus wheat, dark versus white, butter versus oil). In the US the mushy wonder bread appeared in the 1920s or 30s? It?s not an ancient difference. Besides, I think some urban groups of relatively recent newcomers, like the Italians, kept on using Italian bakeries and did not ?adopt? repulsive Wonder bread.

I associate Wonderbread and twinkies and this kind of cuisine with real American-Americans, both white and black. I think the so called ?gourmet? bakeries that actually bake real bread are relatively recent phenomenon. The really rich and snobby species of Americans buy their bread from Poilane bakery and similar bakeries in Paris. It?s shipped by DHL or FedEx or similar courier service from France overnight (40 dollars a loaf?)

When I said Upper Class, I should have said Upper-Middle Class.

I think American junk food in general is pretty bad.

At least low-class Hispanic immigrants here can cook good meals for themselves with fresh ingredients.

EuroMeds in the USA tend to be better about what they eat than low-class Anglo-Americans.

Poor diet has huge effects on physical and mental fitness, in my opinion. You are what you eat. Med culture people tend to socialize over food and eat with gusto, so they're much less likely to eat junk. N Euro culture people tend to just stuff their face as fast as they can, barely noticing the organic material (food) that is passing through their GI tract.