|
Post by Jack Reed on Jan 21, 2006 4:35:37 GMT -5
What would the world be like if the USA was never colonized or created? Let's say that the area that is now the fifty states remained in the hands of the Native Americans while the other American countries were like they are now. There was never a mass migration from Europe to the colonies. How would the world be different?
|
|
|
Post by ndrthl on Jan 21, 2006 5:25:24 GMT -5
Quite difficult to predict. But probably the UK would have a much larger population and would not be dealing with mass immigration issues.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Jan 21, 2006 6:07:37 GMT -5
Is this assuming that no Europeans went in whatsoever, or simply British Europeans? Because I suspect that if the English hadn't went in, the Spanish would have. In that case, I suspect that the area of the USA would have resembled modern day Latin American countries (broad I know). I imagine that there would have been a lot of light Mestizos, since North America was very sparsely populated. Also, I think that many tribes wouldn't have a distinct identity, since the Spanish seemed to encourage Iberian acculturation among most of the natives that they encountered.
However, if it had remained untouched by Europeans altogether, I think that it would resemble Amerindian versions of modern native Siberian communities, that is, that they'd have some modern conveniences, but they'd still live quite traditionally and rustically.
As for the world, I think that Europe might have remained a bit more aristocratic, but even then, weren't the ideas that were brought to their extreme in the USA already in the making back in Britain? Also, American pop-culture, which is so prevalent around the world today, would be absent. Clearly, the world would have been quite different than what we see now, but that isn't to say that some of the things that were unique to the US wouldn't have necessarily developed elsewhere. It is a very interesting question with many possible outcomes and I'd like to see how some of the others here explore the possibilities.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Reed on Jan 21, 2006 7:03:09 GMT -5
^^^^That's an excellent post, Josh. There was no European settlement in my scenario, but your scenario with Spain provides another interesting possibility for discussion. I'm sure that French or Spanish supremacy would have created a very different country. You mentioned political ideas originating in other places. Our founders were greatly influenced by John Locke and Adam Smith (among others). It's very possible that our form of government might have been adapted in another country. Maybe King George III would have been overthrown and replaced by a representative democracy with a president. Your description of Native American culture was realistic too. It's possible that the America (USA) in my scenario would be like a Third World country. However, the Native Americans introduced many revolutionary food and plants to the world. Maybe the upside of that would be that tobacco wouldn't have killed so many people. There's no doubt that culture, especially music, would be *much* different! There would be no rock'n'roll because that was created from a combination of African music (R&B) and European music (C&W) that uniquely developed on American soil. There would be no Hollywood either, and the possible movie industry in my scenario could not develop without there being a European version of Thomas Edison. That takes us to the subject of life-changing inventions....
|
|
|
Post by Jack Reed on Jan 21, 2006 7:06:59 GMT -5
Quite difficult to predict. But probably the UK would have a much larger population and would not be dealing with mass immigration issues. No doubt. There might be a lot of intranational migration, though. The situation between Ireland and Northern Ireland might be different. It could be that the whole of Ireland would unite.
|
|
|
Post by ndrthl on Jan 21, 2006 7:21:37 GMT -5
If America had never existed, then I would have thought that the chances of Germany defeating the UK in World War II would have been much greater. The US played a key role in the solution of intra European conflicts in the XX century. The global conflicts would have had an entire different nature and solution. Would Israel have existed if the US didnt?
|
|
|
Post by Mike the Jedi on Jan 21, 2006 11:18:30 GMT -5
If America never existed, the ocean would be a pretty damn big place.
|
|
|
Post by Educate Me on Jan 21, 2006 14:38:35 GMT -5
the spaniards were in the usa more than a century before the english, millions of americans (from the usa) live in former colonies of spain like Florida or the territories taken from Mexico.
the spaniards were over stretched, most likely, the west/southwest + florida would be spanish and the rest french.
|
|
|
Post by Educate Me on Jan 21, 2006 14:40:15 GMT -5
imagine the usa being like quebec
|
|
|
Post by galton on Jan 21, 2006 14:59:26 GMT -5
What would the world be like if the USA was never colonized or created? Let's say that the area that is now the fifty states remained in the hands of the Native Americans while the other American countries were like they are now. There was never a mass migration from Europe to the colonies. How would the world be different? If the Amerindians remained the only racial group on the Western Hemisphere to this day, the Americas would look much like what it did before Columbus. Why? Because the state the Amerindians were in 500 years ago worked just fine for those indians. There would be no need to change or advance from their natural state of Pre-Columbian time.
|
|
|
Post by galton on Jan 21, 2006 15:00:22 GMT -5
If America never existed, the ocean would be a pretty damn big place. A country isn't a landscape.
|
|
|
Post by Toasty on Jan 21, 2006 16:14:51 GMT -5
I believe if the mesoamerican civilizations would have been untouched, they would have evolved into a japanese like empire. Especially the aztec. Didn't the Japanese turn into a super industrialized nation almost overnight?
Who knows what could of happened. Makes you wish you could time travel, make some changes and see what happens.
|
|
|
Post by anodyne on Jan 21, 2006 18:38:16 GMT -5
I believe if the mesoamerican civilizations would have been untouched, they would have evolved into a japanese like empire. Especially the aztec. Didn't the Japanese turn into a super industrialized nation almost overnight? Who knows what could of happened. Makes you wish you could time travel, make some changes and see what happens. Yes, but that's because Japan was open to Western ideas. Oh, and thank god (or gods.. or aliens) for the silk worm. A Japanese asset in the 19th centurty
|
|
|
Post by buddy on Jan 21, 2006 19:01:32 GMT -5
Is this assuming that no Europeans went in whatsoever, or simply British Europeans? Because I suspect that if the English hadn't went in, the Spanish would have. In that case, I suspect that the area of the USA would have resembled modern day Latin American countries (broad I know). I imagine that there would have been a lot of light Mestizos, since North America was very sparsely populated. Also, I think that many tribes wouldn't have a distinct identity, since the Spanish seemed to encourage Iberian acculturation among most of the natives that they encountered. However, if it had remained untouched by Europeans altogether, I think that it would resemble Amerindian versions of modern native Siberian communities, that is, that they'd have some modern conveniences, but they'd still live quite traditionally and rustically. As for the world, I think that Europe might have remained a bit more aristocratic, but even then, weren't the ideas that were brought to their extreme in the USA already in the making back in Britain? Also, American pop-culture, which is so prevalent around the world today, would be absent. Clearly, the world would have been quite different than what we see now, but that isn't to say that some of the things that were unique to the US wouldn't have necessarily developed elsewhere. It is a very interesting question with many possible outcomes and I'd like to see how some of the others here explore the possibilities. Josh your theory sounds very plausible, however I also think that the French would've also established various colonial outposts in what is now the United States (assuming the question means the lack of British Europeans in what would become the U.S.). With this scenario, I think that what is now the U.S. would've been a battleground between the Spaniards and the French, with the various Native American tribes caught in between. I think the ultimate outcome would've been a land which was carved up between both nations, with each respective area either French or Spanish in language and culture, with mestizos (or metis in the French areas) and Native Americans comprising the majority of the population, much like many Latin American nations. If neither the Spaniards nor the French would've moved in at the time, some other power (European or otherwise) would've likely established itself in the lands that now comprise the U.S. at some point in the future, with Native Americans being overcome by that particular colonizing power due to the technological superiority of that power. Additionally, Europe's population would be at present MUCH larger, as most of their people would've stayed in their native countries rather than emigrate to what is now the U.S. (though many still emigrated to Latin America, Australia, South Africa, etc.). My guess is that Europe would still be the center of power rather than the U.S., though not necessarily so.
|
|
|
Post by galton on Jan 21, 2006 20:32:23 GMT -5
I believe if the mesoamerican civilizations would have been untouched, they would have evolved into a japanese like empire. Especially the aztec. Didn't the Japanese turn into a super industrialized nation almost overnight? Who knows what could of happened. Makes you wish you could time travel, make some changes and see what happens. I dont't think mesoamerican civilizations would have evolved or advanced beyond what they were at the time of Columbus because they had thousands of years of isolation to begin in Pre-Columbian era to make their advances. They didn't.
|
|