DODONA: Human Biodiversity Discussion Forum
« Racial History of Egypt »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Sept 2, 2010, 3:26pm

[Home] [New Topics] [Help] [Search] [Login]



DODONA: Human Biodiversity Discussion Forum :: Human Biodiversity :: Physical Anthropology :: Racial History of Egypt
« Page 3 of 3 Jump to page   Go    [Search This Thread][Send Topic To Friend] [Print]
AuthorTopic: Racial History of Egypt (Read 13,898 times)
Ewig Berter
God
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Nature Seen by Amazigh Eyes!



Joined: Jul 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,185
Location: Tamazgha
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #30 on Jan 22, 2006, 5:00pm »

Quote:
What are its distinctive features?


The berberid core formed out from the superposition of two mediterranean types :
1. Ibero-Maurusians
These people were Mechtoids, an indigeneous northwest african form of Cromagnon man. They are associated with Iberomaurusian and Oranian Cultures, found along the northern coasts of NWA (--- Riff and Kabylie Regions).

Ibero-maurusian Culture :

Quote:
A stone tool culture characterized by small backed bladelets and found across the North African coast from at least 22,000-10,000 years ago (the late Würm (last) glacial period). It followed the Aterian in the Epipalaeolithic of Maghreb in North Africa and preceded the Capsian. The culture was related to Cro-Magnon, A Group of people known as the Mechta-el-Arbi race, living along the Mediterranean from Tunisia to Morocco and also Libya. Linked to the sea, there are huge shell mounds of mussels, oysters, and arca. Associated with these are pottery and limited stone tool industry, in conjunction with hearths, sometimes still marked by supporting stones. Extensive cemeteries have been investigated, as at Taforalt, and also at Afalou bou Rhummel and Columnata in Algeria. Burials were sometimes decorated with ochre or accompanied by food remains or by horns of wild cattle. The industry does bear a close resemblance to the late Magdalenian culture in Spain, which is broadly contemporary (c 15,000 BC). There is evidence suggesting that the Ibero-Maurusian industry is derived from a Nile River valley culture known as Halfan, which dates from c 17,000 BC.


Oranian Culture :

Quote:
North African culture of late Upper Palaeolithic type, with many backed blades and some microliths. A few inland sites are known, but most are concentrated along the Mediterranean littoral from Cyrenaica (the Haua Fteah) to Morocco. The time range is c 12,000-8000 BC. It is contemporary with the Capsian, though the Capsian sites are all inland, whereas the Oranian has a coastal distribution. Both are microlithic tool complexes that persisted after the introduction of Neolithic traits into the area.


2. Capsians
People associated with archeological cultures related to Gafsa/Capsa Culture, which developped mainly on in-land sites of NWA :

Capsa Site :
[image]

Capsa Culture :

Quote:
a Mesolithic (8000 BC–2700 BC) cultural complex prominent in the inland areas of North Africa. Its most characteristic sites are in the area of the great salt lakes of what is now southern Tunisia, the type site being Jabal al-Maqta', near Qafsah (Capsa, French Gafsa). Although the tool kit of the Capsian is a classic example of the industries of the late Würm Glacial Period, and, while it is apparently related to the Gravettian stage of Europe's Perigordian industry (which dates from about 17,000 years ago), it does not properly belong to the glacial period at all but clearly occurs in Neothermal (postglacial) times. Like its predecessor, the Ibero-Maurusian industry (or Oranian industry), the Capsian was a microlithic (tiny-flaked-blade) tool complex. It differed from the Ibero-Maurusian, however, in displaying a far more varied tool kit distinguished by large backed blades and burins in its earlier phase and a gradual development of geometric microliths later. These became its leading feature by the 6th millennium BC, when they seem to have been transmitted to the final Ibero-Maurusian groups along the coast.



Quote:
Some North African rock paintings are attributed to people of the Capsian industry.

Rock paintings of Garamantes
[image]
From my personal experience, I can roughly describe the capsian berbers as a relatively-tall, gracile, long-faced people, they are very comparable in those aspects with pure Arabians; Dominant skin color: brwon.
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
' Shadows and dust, Berterius ' - Proximo
Agrippa
God
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Progressive Collectivist



Joined: Jan 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,288
Location: Asgard
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #31 on Jan 22, 2006, 6:19pm »
The Capsian culture brought Protomediterranid elements into North Africa which was before that more robust and rather Cromagnoid (Ibero-Maurisiens). But still they had some primitive traits and were not fully developed Mediterranids in my opinion. There came later Neolithic waves in too as I wrote on Skadi about North African racial composition.

Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Magna Europa est patria nostra
STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!
Ewig Berter
God
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Nature Seen by Amazigh Eyes!



Joined: Jul 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,185
Location: Tamazgha
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #32 on Jan 23, 2006, 4:09pm »

Quote:
The Capsian culture brought Protomediterranid elements into North Africa which was before that more robust and rather Cromagnoid (Ibero-Maurisiens). But still they had some primitive traits and were not fully developed Mediterranids in my opinion. There came later Neolithic waves in too as I wrote on Skadi about North African racial composition.


Full agreement here; Just one remark: Arent ALL mediterranoid forms (either euro or not) rather 'primitive' if compared with the ultimate form (fr. la forme limite) towards which they are developing!?. I agree, however, that (Euro-)Mediterranids are 'the most physically developed' mediterranean subrace, i.e. the closest mediterranean subrace to the ultimate mediterranid form.

Do you think the singer in that webpage combines both capsid and cromagnid traits!?. You can enjoy the music, Btw!
« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2006, 4:20pm by Ewig Berter »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
' Shadows and dust, Berterius ' - Proximo
truedat
New Member
*
member is offline

[avatar]

I've got carpal tunnel!



Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #33 on Jan 23, 2006, 5:54pm »
Well, I guess I have to post again: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9845/data7.htm Can't refute that can ya?
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Dienekes: misinterprets and selectively picks outdated or refuted studies ro further his ideology of a "Great Mediterranean Race".
Planet Asia: Correctly interprets studies and actually e-mails the geneticists to get the correct conclusions. Plus, he's not insecure about himself or the "purity" of his race. Planet Asia OWNS Dienekes and Dodona. Peace.
Agrippa
God
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Progressive Collectivist



Joined: Jan 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,288
Location: Asgard
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #34 on Jan 23, 2006, 9:27pm »
I think that we might see similar Protomediterranid forms in various regions and that they developed on, specialised regionally, simple as that. The North African Mediterranoids just specialised more to the desert without being as specialised as Orientalids, though going in a similar direction. What you call Capsid might be mainly this typical North African Southern Mediterranoid which I mean and I think this singer is according to the pictures I saw (couldnt load the gallery) rather Mediterranoid with minor Cromagnoid influence.

European Mediterranids are just partly descendents of the Neolithics and to a large degree they might be indigenous, Upper Palaeolithic survivors which just specialised in a similar (not same) way as Neolithic Eastmediterranids.

Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Magna Europa est patria nostra
STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!
Agrippa
God
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Progressive Collectivist



Joined: Jan 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,288
Location: Asgard
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #35 on Jan 24, 2006, 10:59am »
I added more comments and scans to the threads on Skadi & Stirpes to make things more vivid:
Skadi:
http://forum.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=367471
Stirpes:
http://forum.stirpes.net/showthread.php?t=6906

...it seems that the Europid element of the Egyptians was from the predynastic times on predominantely Mediterranid, though there were Orientalid influences from Arabia.
The fellahs and Copts of modern Egypt can be considered being the just insignificantly altered descendents of the Egyptians of late dynastic times. (roughly translated from BAKER 1974)
Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Magna Europa est patria nostra
STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!
Baladi
Junior Member
**
member is offline





Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 63
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #36 on Jan 27, 2006, 1:19am »



Quote:
( F.e. Oum Kelthoum is 100% Arabid; she is from an arabic tribe of Saed of Egypt)



Where did you get this information from? Umm Kalthoum is not Saeed. She is actually a fallaha from the Delta region in Lower Egypt[Northern Egypt].


Plus there is no Arabic tribe called Saeed in Egypt. Saeed is an Arabic word that means Upper Egypt[Southern Egypt].





Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Ewig Berter
God
*****
member is offline

[avatar]

Nature Seen by Amazigh Eyes!



Joined: Jul 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,185
Location: Tamazgha
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #37 on Jan 30, 2006, 5:18pm »

Quote:



Quote:
( F.e. Oum Kelthoum is 100% Arabid; she is from an arabic tribe of Saed of Egypt)



Where did you get this information from? Umm Kalthoum is not Saeed. She is actually a fallaha from the Delta region in Lower Egypt[Northern Egypt].
[/i].


Plus there is no Arabic tribe called Saeed in Egypt. Saeed is an Arabic word that means Upper Egypt[Southern Egypt].






Yeah, I meant she is fellaha. In your eyptian TV series and films thats equivalent to saying she is Seedia.

Next time, quote my posts with my full screen name, please.
« Last Edit: Jan 30, 2006, 5:19pm by Ewig Berter »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
' Shadows and dust, Berterius ' - Proximo
Baladi
Junior Member
**
member is offline





Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 63
Re: Racial History of Egypt
« Reply #38 on Jan 31, 2006, 7:11pm »


Ewing Berter said:


Quote:
Yeah, I meant she is fellaha. In your eyptian TV series and films thats equivalent to saying she is Seedia.

Next time, quote my posts with my full screen name, please.



Don't know where you get your information but you stated she came from an Arab tribe called Saeed. There is no Arabic tribe in Egypt called Saeed. Saeed is an Arabic word for everywhere south of Egypt.

The only ethnic Arabs in Egypt are Bedouin tribes that live either in the Sinai or the Eastern Desert. Some Northern Egyptian fellahin might have Arab mixture but they are definately not ethnic Arabs.

Fellahin=rural Egyptian farmers that live from Northern Egypt to Middle Egypt.

Saidi=Southern Egyptians or Upper Egyptians

Usually the Bedouins in Egypt don't mix with the fellahin unless they have been settled down in certain villages in parts of the Delta and Middle Egypt. For the longest time the Arab bedouins declined to hand in daughter in marriage to the fellahin untill recently they settled down and blended in with the fellahin.












Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
« Page 3 of 3 Jump to page   Go    [Search This Thread][Send Topic To Friend] [Print]

since 2 Apr 2005

Click Here To Make This Board Ad-Free


This Board Hosted For FREE By ProBoards
Get Your Own Free Message Boards & Free Forums!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Report Abuse | Mobile