Use the link as the original has plenty of pictures. Here is an apetizer.
Quote:
Other facts destroying the Italian theory:
The defenders of Genovese theory and the Italians, have in the past 180 years, have expressed their joy and vanity boosting that the navigator was Genovese. But they should get ready to accept the bare truth that the true navigator did not have Italian blood, but was instead 100% Portuguese! This will be a tough and bitter pill for the Italians to swallow, but the truth is like olive oil, always comes to the surface of the water!...
(1) The Genovese was a wool carder and his family were all wool carders. They never had any maritime experience. His Italian name was Cristoforo Colombo. But the name that appears on official documents on the last part of the fifteenth century – such as the Papal Bulls by Alexander VI, dated May 3r, and May 4th, 1493, show the Portuguese name Cristofõm Colon. Why the Papal Bulls do not show the Italian name Cristoforo Colombo?!
(2) The Italian Columbus NEVER wrote ANYTHING in Italian and NEVER spoke Italian!!! He left Genoa at the age of 24, but the Genovists say that he forgot his Italian!.. How ridiculous can anyone be? “Porca Miséria!”….
(3) The true navigator only wrote and spoke in Portuguese and Spanish. His Spanish is Portuguese adopted into Spanish, according to some Spanish historians!
(4) If Cristoforo Colombo was born in Genoa and was Italian, how come he NEVER gave ANY Italian name – NOT even the city where he was born – to the places on the islands in the Caribbean Sea, such as: Genoa, Rome ( the headquarters of the Catholic Church), Venice, Florence, Naples, Turin, Milan, Palermo, already all famous cities five hundred years ago?! How come the maps the true navigators made after his four voyages to the Caribbean have more than 40 Portuguese names and NOT a single Italian name?!
Here are the 40 Portuguese names in the Greater and Lesser Antilles, after the 4 voyages:
Guadiana, Ponta de Santo António, S. João Baptista, Porto Santo, Mourão, Isabel, Sanctus Spiritus, Sta. Clara, S. Nicolau, conceição, Cabo de S. João, Cabo Alfa, S. Cabo Roxo, S.Miguel, Cabo Omega, S. António, Sta. Catarina, S. Jorge, Ponta Galera, S. Bernardo, Bocas das Serpentes, Boda do Dragão, Margarita, Ponta de Faro, Domingos, Boca de Touro, Cabo Isabel, I lha dos Guinchos, Salvador, Santarém, Cuba, Curaçao, Brasil, Belém. S. Vincente, Sta. Luzia,
5) How come a wool carder was able to marry Filipa de Perestrelo, the daughter of a most noble Portuguese citizen, Governor of Madeira and Porto Santo, when in those days the differences between social classes – peasants and nobles – were enormous and very restricted?!
(6) There are in Italy more than one dozen localities that claim the navigator was born in their city! How ridiculous can it get?!
Italy and all Italians do not need to claim this wool carder as their false great navigator, because they can be proud of their Roman-Italian accomplishments and their outstanding many contributions to the world civilization!
Here is the translation of the false Military Codicil written in Latin.
You do not have to be a lawyer to detect that its contents is deceptive and its handwriting is forged.
"Codicil of Christopher Columbus made after the manner of soldiers.
"Since the Most Holy Father Alexander VI presented me with a book of devotion which I have had with me and which has been my solace in captivity, in battles and in adverse fortunes, I now desire that after my death this precious gift may be given for a memorial to my most dear country the Republic of Genoa, and on account of the benefits I have received from said City, I wish a new Hospital may be built from my Indian revenues, for the better care of the poor of my country, and in case of the extinguishment of my male line, I declare and substitute the said Republic of Saint George (Genoa) my heir to the Admiralty of the Indies and to the other privileges connected therewith.
"Done at Valladolid May 4,1506.
S.
S. A. S. Xpy Ferens
X. M. j.
Please, note that the writer used the letter [ Y ] in the word of May, but prefered to use the letter [ j ] for Joseph!... This is a false sigla!!!
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #1 on Sept 8, 2004, 3:35pm »
Seems like more Crap..Though you know, that would be somewhat interesting if your a revisionist with national agenda complex going.
I heard it all with some even say he never existed,or maybe he was the Blond haired Blue Eyed nordic from Germany,or an italian from greece! Whats your point,thats Conjecture nothing more?
He was Italian! He did live in Portugal in 1477 working with his bother.Lisbon at that time was the center of maritime activity.
Now if you still want to argue on with the accepted history and truth,than wait until theirs a DNA test done or whatever to determine and end the controversy..But until then he's Italian(which he is)
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #2 on Sept 8, 2004, 3:55pm »
Alex That makes a lot of sense!
1- he never write anything in italian. 2- he was not castilian (made mistakes writing) 3- he named cuba to that island, it's an portuguese city name 4- he married an portuguese with nobel blood (interesting... how a common people man (from italy)could marry the most important figure in madeira.
The other possibility is that he was from catallan nobility, that also make more sense than the genovese crap!
Btw he didn't made anything special, Infante Henriques was more important in the globalization of the european world!
I am in no patiotic agenda!
I repeat the catallan theory MAKES MORE SENSE THAN THE GENOVESE CRAP!
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #3 on Sept 8, 2004, 5:40pm »
Quote:
Seems like more Crap..Though you know, that would be somewhat interesting if your a revisionist with national agenda complex going.
I heard it all with some even say he never existed,or maybe he was the Blond haired Blue Eyed nordic from Germany,or an italian from greece! Whats your point,thats Conjecture nothing more?
He was Italian! He did live in Portugal in 1477 working with his bother.Lisbon at that time was the center of maritime activity.
Now if you still want to argue on with the accepted history and truth,than wait until theirs a DNA test done or whatever to determine and end the controversy..But until then he's Italian(which he is)
Read the pages about the "Portuguese" Columbus in that historians's site - then talk. The man makes perfect sense. Colon's real name was Cristofõm Colon. Do Italians use the tilde? They don't, do they? Colon married Dona Filipa de Perestrelo (a Portuguese woman of the famous Perestrelo family). There are plenty of evidences in that man's site (and in his books).
The one thing Portugal doesn't need in her Hall of Fame is another explorer - we have dozens, most of whom were a hell of a lot more competent than Colon. Besides, he didn't find anything that we didn't know was already there (pick a XV century Portuguese map and you will see New England and New Foundland drawn in the upper-right (and named Antillia, or something of the sort).
As to revisionism, in his time Darwin was a revisionist. Henry the Navigator was a revisionist. Magellan was a revisionist. All the great people, all the people that made history were - at one given time of their lives - revisionists.
When revisionism is based on solid facts and when its aim is to bring knowledge to light, there is nothing wrong in being a revisionist.
Personally, after reading a lot about the subject, I find it very hard to believe that a man that never spoke Italian, that had a Portuguese name (Cristofõm Colon), that married a Portuguese noble woman, and that spoke only in Portuguese or Castillian could ever be an Italian. How could a Genoan wool merchant marry a Portuguese aristocrat? He was no wool merchant. He was a convert (former Jew) belonging to an old and reputed family of explorers (the family Zarco).
If you are so quick in refuting the page I posted, answer just this one question: why did Columbus sail during the night and day during the first two weeks, and only started stopping the ships during the night during the third week, when ALL the explorers only sailed during the day on uncharted seas to avoid shipwrecks?
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #5 on Sept 8, 2004, 6:13pm »
Quote:
The present theory doesn't make any sense! Too much going against it!
Like I said the catallan theory is a lot more believible than the genovese/italian nonsense!
He had many reasons to lie about his identity! Portugal was the biggest spain enemy!
I don't think that Columbus lied about anything. His identity was "forged" probably after the XVI century and it wouldn't surprise me if it was in some way related to a campaign orchestrated to discredit the Iberian Peninsula. Spain was at war with the world, and the "Black Legend" was very popular in England, France and Holland. By affinity, Portugal was also caught in this web of lies to the point that we actually started believing them. In some ways, we still do.
"The same might be said now of DNA testing. Sadly, although Orchid does manage to extract DNA from the ancient bone dust, it is insufficient for the scientists to reach any firm conclusion about his likely place of birth or even his family relationships.The only thing they can say is that he is not likely to have been Jewish, though even this rests on balance of probability rather than absolute proof.
Most of the documentary evidence, such as it is, places the young Columbus in Genoa, and it seems probable that there was a boy there of the right name at the right time. But was this low-born, uneducated weaver's son really a plausible candidate for the spearhead of the modern world? Professor Charles Merrill, a medieval historian at the Mount St Mary's University and Seminary in Maryland, USA, has spent 15 years exploring the explorer's background, and of one thing he is certain.
"There may have been a Cristoforo Colombo from Genoa, but he is not the same man who discovered America."
Some of the arguments are pretty well worn. The Genoa Columbus, for instance, did not go to sea until he was in his twenties, yet the adult Columbus recorded in his memoirs: "From a very small age, I went sailing upon the sea and have continued to this day..." In a letter written in 1502, he said he had been sailing for 40 years — which, given the accepted birth date of 1451, puts him to sea at the age of 11. This matches the common-sensical expectation that an admiral of Columbus's skill must have had lifelong experience of ocean navigation, not a career change in his third decade. Then there is the social conundrum.
The Genoa Columbus is an uneducated tradesman, and yet we are asked to believe that, in class-ridden late-15th-century Portugal, he is able to court and marry the daughter of an aristocrat. Even Columbus's own descendant Dr Anunciada Colon de Carvajal, herself a historian and expert in Columbus family history, finds this difficult to credit. "Felipa belonged to a noble Portuguese family. Her father was the governor of Porto Santo. How could someone coming from a humble class, who belongs to a family of wool loaders, marry a woman from a noble family?"
There is also the question of the young man's education. The Columbus who turned up at the royal court in Castile was a highly educated, polished and prolific writer whose output earned a place in Spanish folklore (there is a saying applied to over-energetic correspondents — "He writes more than Columbus"). How could such a transformation have been achieved?
The Genoese theory assumes that Columbus taught himself in Portugal. Well, maybe. Remarkable men by definition are capable of remarkable achievements. But is it likely?
« Last Edit: Sept 8, 2004, 7:24pm by SwordandCompass »
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #8 on Sept 8, 2004, 7:19pm »
Quote:
Alex sorry if I disagree with you! but that doesn't make sense...to me at least!
It sounds like a big conspiracy theory, doesn't it?
Think of it like this: Portugal couldn't care less about the nationality of Columbus (we didn't even bother to claim many of our explorations, like the discovery of Newfoundland or Australia), and Spain did claim him as one of their own. In the XVI and XVII centuries, Britain was attacking the Spanish empire both militarily (privateers and military expeditions in the Spanish Main) diplomatically (Elizabeth I sponsored the Dutch rebelliion) and they also started a war of propaganda. The Spaniards started being seen as religious fanatics, as a decadent people whose time of grandeur was over. The Inquisition was also used to a great extent as a sign of Spanish intolerance and backwardness (compare the tens thousands killed by the Spanish Inquisition with the millions killed in Germany and England during the XVI century's "Witch Hunts").
The Inquisition sucked, but it wasn't as bad as it is portraid. It was a legal court designed to prevent mass hysteria responsible for the Witch Hunts and lynch mobs that killed millions. In a court of law that didn't happen. If you look at the records, in Portugal there were only 2000 people executed by the Inquisition in almost 300 years! There were a lot more convicts, but most penalties were very soft (for pre-modern times).
Portugal was (and in some circles still is) considered a "mulatto nation" responsible for the slave trade. When you see a Portuguese in an American or British film, he/she will most likely be rapists (The Accused), arms dealer (one of the James Bond movies), smuggler (Indiana Jones and the last cruzade), slave trader (Amistad), house maid with a disgusting gypsy family (Love Actually), blue collar girl that falls for the rich WASP kid (Mystic Pizza) or murderers of Indians (The Mission).
The Spaniards don't get a better record either... 12 years ago, when Spain met England during the Euro96 the English tabloids kept insulting Spanish courage (saying that they didn't win a battle since the 1500s, that Spanish women had moustaches and crap like that). Even today, if you read carefully the BBC news online, you will notice a slight bias.
This is all very true, but many people aren't even aware of it.
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #9 on Sept 8, 2004, 8:35pm »
Quote:
It sounds like a big conspiracy theory, doesn't it?
Think of it like this: Portugal couldn't care less about the nationality of Columbus (we didn't even bother to claim many of our explorations, like the discovery of Newfoundland or Australia), and Spain did claim him as one of their own. In the XVI and XVII centuries, Britain was attacking the Spanish empire both militarily (privateers and military expeditions in the Spanish Main) diplomatically (Elizabeth I sponsored the Dutch rebelliion) and they also started a war of propaganda. The Spaniards started being seen as religious fanatics, as a decadent people whose time of grandeur was over. The Inquisition was also used to a great extent as a sign of Spanish intolerance and backwardness (compare the tens thousands killed by the Spanish Inquisition with the millions killed in Germany and England during the XVI century's "Witch Hunts").
The Inquisition sucked, but it wasn't as bad as it is portraid. It was a legal court designed to prevent mass hysteria responsible for the Witch Hunts and lynch mobs that killed millions. In a court of law that didn't happen. If you look at the records, in Portugal there were only 2000 people executed by the Inquisition in almost 300 years! There were a lot more convicts, but most penalties were very soft (for pre-modern times).
Portugal was (and in some circles still is) considered a "mulatto nation" responsible for the slave trade. When you see a Portuguese in an American or British film, he/she will most likely be rapists (The Accused), arms dealer (one of the James Bond movies), smuggler (Indiana Jones and the last cruzade), slave trader (Amistad), house maid with a disgusting gypsy family (Love Actually), blue collar girl that falls for the rich WASP kid (Mystic Pizza) or murderers of Indians (The Mission).
The Spaniards don't get a better record either... 12 years ago, when Spain met England during the Euro96 the English tabloids kept insulting Spanish courage (saying that they didn't win a battle since the 1500s, that Spanish women had moustaches and crap like that). Even today, if you read carefully the BBC news online, you will notice a slight bias.
This is all very true, but many people aren't even aware of it.
Hey Alex at least in 'Gangs in New York' by Martin Scorsese,showed the true nature of WASPS.Remeber he, 'Billy the Butcher' order 'Amsterdam Vallon' to attack the "Portugee" ship docked in New York!! Lol So true!!! Pirate our ships!!!!
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #10 on Sept 9, 2004, 3:07am »
It's the africans who are imposing some lobbying...
Whenever someone talk about portugal in historic films... I think you got the picture!
I know that some portuguese tried to put a VEY NICE ENGLISH queen statue in Queens New York.
Queens got the name queens because of that nice queen...
Yes the queen who brought to england the tea drinking habit! Yes she was portuguese!
Bombaim (boa baia-good bay) was offered to the english as a marriage offering from the portuguese kings, and that made the english empire in India an reality!
After that statue proposal, the black sector jumped up... NOOO, no WHITE ENSLAVING PORTUGUESE QUEEN!
BAH!!!!!!!!! She had much to do with enslaving like I am responsible for the nuke bomb in Hiroshima...
I bet most of those africans dudes had ancestors connected with enslaving their's kind.
IT WAS A SURPRISE when portuguese arrived in Africa and were offered slaves by the locals.
Portuguese never engaged in enslaving captures, IT WAS ALLWAYS THE LOCALS!
We must build some kind of lobbying! we could connect hundreds of portuguese, and this ones might have hundreds of other connections...
A forum here in proboards could do just that!
Why not trying to connect with Tom Hanks and george lucas (they have portuguese ancestors), and try to get a very big help from them!
Why not!
We could jump up whenever something bad was said against the portuguese...in hollywood or not!
In exchange for guns and other European goods, the Ashanti sold gold and slaves, usually either captured in war or accepted as tribute from conquered peoples
Ouidah was a densely populated, prosperous kingdom located on the Slave Coast of West Africa in what is now Benin. It rose to prominence as an exporter of slaves in the late 17th century and flourished for about sixty years
Built in 1482 by Portuguese traders, Elmina Castle was the first European slave-trading post in all of sub-saharan Africa. Located on the western coast of present-day Ghana, it was originally built to protect the gold trade but following its capture by the Dutch in 1637, it came to serve the Dutch slave trade with Brazil and the Caribbean.
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #13 on Sept 9, 2004, 4:21am »
Real true colonization of Africa only started in the XX century! not before!
There are many people with wrong notions ... true colonization only lasted for 100 years.
Enslaving duties was made for europeans by africans themselfs!
That is something the blacks would not like to know about! And thus most slave movies are only depicting a rather untrue story, the political correctiveness of our modern civilization also help the notion of european evilness! AFRICANS WERE THE EVIL ONES! At least until the XX century!
Re: Columbus was Portuguese, not Italian « Reply #14 on Sept 9, 2004, 4:55am »
vitor i dont think any of that is really a matter of dispute, at least to people on this bored. the question is what happened after the were handed over by the african kings.
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Whats your point,thats Conjecture nothing more?
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