for the others, here is an approximate translation (systran):
By Lounis Igderzen
When HOLLYWOOD is interested in the North-African Heroes Hannibal Barca, first clap for 2005 News of Hannibal the conqueror made in Hollywood At the hour when Hollywood "literally" makes a return to films of "Sands and Sandals Sand and Sandals" *, Hannibal Barca is the next target one of two American giants of the cinema: Fox and One Race Production. These two firms are in conflict on their two versions and "are in pipeline" to recall the epopee of the famous Carthaginian General. One puts in scene Denzel Washington, the other Diesel Wine to endorse the costume of the famous grêlon of Carthage. But to date only one version, that of One Race Production, is profiled at the horizon under the features of Diesel Wine, actor and producer, in the skin of the héro northern African. First clap for 2005. In Hollywood, the polemic caused many debates impassioned in the cinematographic higher realms. The physical features of the famous conqueror were the first subject of discords. Which actor could thus cover the adequate physical features to represent our hero accurately? If for One Race Production the answer is is little "kind of", that of Twentieth Century Fox, as for it, is resounding "yes! Hannibal is one, and… "to take again their expression" a full Negro ". As information misses and that the little bit of information one has satisfies neither the ones nor the others, the most imaginative speculations if not most whimsical were launched. If in the spirit of the nords-Africans the question does not arise, for the afro-centrists in search of historical heroes, the ancestors of the current Africans of the North whose Hannibal are negros. For George S. Khalaf, ethno-historian libano-Syrian with whom it question was posed by one of the people working in Hollywood, Vin Diesel, mongrel italo afro-American definite itself like multiracial, is it is that which would approach the most reality. As for Denzel Washington, an actor with the undeniable talent and the incomparable charisma, is afro-American physically contrary to to represent under the ethnic plan our subject. Are the physical features significant in a cinematographic work?
Extract article was published on "organizations of black screenwriters" raised on www.africana.com < http://www.africana.com > "… After many decades in which white actors played non-white characters, such have John Wayne' S curious portrayal of the Mongolian Genghis Khan in 1956' S" The Conqueror, "should non-whites like Washington now play ancient figures who were probably Caucasian, such have Hannibal? Significant How is it for actors to racially match to their characters?… " Translation "… Since decades of the white actors played of the nonwhite characters, such as John Wayne in Gengis Khan into 1956." conquerrant It "; noncouldn't white, like Washington, interpret old figures which were probably Caucasians, such as Hannibal? Which importance, after all, for actors to resemble to their characters racialement?… " I would answer this: When characters represent not ethnos group specifies, history precise, case precise, that undoubtedly would import little, but when one touches with the history of a nation, of an ethnos group, with historical figures of which a whole people are behind, yes the importance is capital. Here in fact it is about history, of a character who existed. If one accepts this kind of heard evil, crowd which will see this film, and which undoubtedly for more the share is unaware of the history, will believe what their eyes see. The heard evil will become a real fact. But like known as Helene HAGAN, "we do not want to be represented under the features of another ethnicity, with another dress another culture that ours." Why doesn't Hollywood directly consult the people concerned, i.e. Imazighen themselves, in connection with this history? Why the Berber ones are constantly ignored in what the key of very near? Are we negligible entities so that whoever draws from our culture without we having our word to say? Why do we let make? - T-it does not have there not enough strong voice to defend our inheritance? We do not have also imminent scientists who can answer these questions of order ethnoculturel! Why are we continuously trampled? And especially why do we let make? Don't our scientists have a credit on their research and their writings? Does our history have more value than when it is told by foreign people with our culture? Aren't our scientists taken with serious so that one does not call upon them? Or, quite simply don't we have scientists? When Afro centrists adapt the Berbères heroes The schoolboys afro-American, in search of historical heroes, admire, consider, and for a long time assert Hannibal, Kahina or Massinissa like models of racial heroes. In connection with KAHINA John Henrik Clark, written afro-centrist "… Have both year historian and has conscious African man, I amndt constantly impressed by the stature and majesty of African women and to their prominent position in the pages of world history. From the earliest times, African women were loved, honored, respected and adored in Africa and around the world. African women often administered mighty nations, and sometimes even led victorious in battle. Dahia Al-Kahina of Mauretania, North Africa was one such example. Al-Kahina, described have possessing "dark skin, has mass of to hair," was has Moorish freedom fighter, resistance leader and African patriot. The term Moor, meaning scorched gold black, was has designation applied to the Black populations of Northwest Africa. Year early Muslim scholar, in discussing the ethnicity of the Moorish women of North Africa, wrote simply that "to their color is black...." Translation "… Like a historian and conscious African man, I am constantly impressed by the stature and the majesty of the African women and their eminent position in the pages of the history of the world. Dice the beginning of the oldest times, the African women were liked, honoured, respected and adored in Africa and throughout the world. The African women often managed powerful nations, and even sometimes carried out victorious combat. Dahia Al-Kahina of Maurétanie, North Africa, was an example. Al-Kahina, described like having "a dark skin, thick hair" was a Moor, fighting, of freedom, leading of resistance and a African patriot. The Moor term, meaning burned or black, was a designation applied to the Noires populations of the North-West of Africa. A former Moslem well-read man, discussing the ethnicity of the women Moors of North Africa, wrote simply this "their color is black…" Error, badly heard or quite simply a will deliberated to mislead the world: let us see Mr Henrik Clark here confuses all and mixes all, Dahya Damya known as Kahina is not Western North of Maurétanie (current north of Morocco) is not nor a Moor, but Massyle of the Algerian east which corresponds today to Aurès. I would like that Mr Clark says to me of which language the word Moor does come? If it is of Latin, the word is Niger negro-black nero, if it is into Berber the word is Averkhan, if it is in Arabic the word is K' hel. With less than that would mean brown, but the brown color does not mean black at all. Indians of the Indies which would have given the Indo-European people, will we qualify them négroïde? Morphologiquement their features are Caucasian and yet their skin is very dark. RUNOKO RASHIDI, wrote in connection with Massinissa and its ethnicity "Massinissa was has Numidian… The Numidians were of mixed Berber and Ethiopian ancestry. The Berbers claimed descent from the Mazoi, the Negro soldiers of ancient Egypt. Their numbers, like others of the peoples of northern Africa, were continually reinforced by Negro peoples from the south brought in ace Slavic prisoners and. The great strength of both Carthage and Numidia was the renowned Numidlan cavalry… "
Re: An article about hannibal's movie « Reply #1 on Jun 5, 2004, 6:50am »
Translation "Massinissa was Numide… Numides were of Ethiopian Berbères mixture and ancestors. The Berber ones asserted to go down from the tribute of Mazoi, the Nègres soldiers of old Egypt. Their numbers, like the other people of septentrional Africa, were continuously reinforced by Negros of the south brought back like prisoners and slaves. The great force of Carthage and Numidie was celebrates it Here Numide cavalry… ", it seems that he y' still has confusion between Numides, the Nubians and the Namibians. Numidie was the name given to Massylie (territory which extended from current part of Kabylie, Aurès, Constantine as far as Tunisia). The Numide army was made up Numides soldiers and many soldiers mercenaries come from the sub-Saharan territories. It is extremely possible that the Numide cavalry composed by these many foreign mercenaries are not taken for Numides truths. In the spirit of the centre afro, all that emanates from Africa east négroïde, the leaders such as, Massinissa, Hannibal or Dehya Damya known as Al Kahina… to whom they dedicated and establish several sites and writing of many works… and which made the glory of Numidie, Carthage, Maurétanie, were of black race. Berber the current white, according to them, would be only the result of intermarriages with Europeans. I do not have anything against, if that were really the case. But per hour when nations and people fight for their survival, be wouldn't urgent to give the points on "I" to all those which want to usurp and falsify our historical inheritance, without shouting "Ho racism"? That one does not come to speak to us here about racism; people are in danger of extinction because precisely of heard evil, falsification and usurpation. Hannibal was a native of Carthage, city known as founded and occupied by Phéniciens and the I Mazighen, and which is on the northern extreme littoral of the African continent (current Tunisia). These regions always have were inhabited by a Caucasian population and this since the Neolithic era. How under pretexts that it is Africa all the people which form it could be other thing only blacks? These nonfounded speculations however sow the doubt in our spirits on the pseudo color of the ancestors of the African nords, and which animate many passions on various sites such as www.richardpoe.com, the organization of black screenwriters, and united press international.... Very interesting debate which brings to raise the following question: who were the ancestors of I mazighen? The first Berber ones were they really of négroïde type? For the British writer Peter Jones, the black Africans, (the alleged négroïde type), never populated the littoral of the north of Africa.For Gabriel Camps, who devoted his whole life on the study of the alleged origins of I Mazighen, never the enigma elucidated either.But let us go up in time. Gabriel Camps Written "… One can, following M.C. Chamla, to recognize among Proto Mediterranean two varieties most frequent, under type of Médjez II, with raised cranium, is orthognatous, the second, less spread, that of Aïn Dokkara, with lower dome of the skull, is sometimes prognathe, without however presenting the characters négroïdes to which one had wrongly drawn the attention…" Homo sapiens of the Maghreb The man atérien "… Sans to seek the same origins of the man in North Africa, we must however briskly go up the millenia to include/understand how the settlement of this vast area currently pinch between the Desert and the Mediterranean constituted. We place at the beginning of the time that in Europe the prehistorians name Paléolithique superior: at this time already saw in the Maghreb a man of our species, Homo sapiens sapiens, more primitive than its European contemporary, the Man of Cro-Magnon and which is the author of Atérien, culture derived from Moustérien. This man atérien discovered in Dar be Soltan (Morocco) present sufficient analogies with the man moustérien of Djebel Irhoud so that one can admit that it of it results. More interesting still is the recognition of a filiation between this man atérien and his successor, known since strong a long time in the Maghreb under the name of Homme of Mechta el-Arbi. Origins of the man of Mechta el-Arbi The Man of Mechta el-Arbi is a cromagnoïde; he presents the dominant physical characters of them: the big size (1,74 m on average for the men), strong cranial capacity (1650 DC), the disharmonie between the broad and low face, with the orbits of rectangular form broader than high, and the cranium which is dolichocéphale or mésocéphale. His beginnings, the Man of Mechta el-Arbi is associated an industry, named Ibéromaurusien, which occupied all the littoral areas and telliennes. Ibéromaurusien, contemporary of Magdalénien and Azilien Europeans, has already the characters of a epipaleolithic industry because of the small size of its lithic parts. It is very often of small plates of which one of the edges was cut down to form a back. These objects were elements of tools, kinds of spare parts whose fitting in handles out of wooden or bone got effective instruments or weapons. Traditionally, it was thought that the Man of Mechta el-Arbi, cousin of the Man of Cro-Magnon, had an external origin. The ones imagined the Men of Mechta el-Arbi, from Europe, crossing Spain and the Straits of Gibraltar to spread itself at the same time in the Maghreb and the Canary Islands whose first inhabitants, Guanches, had preserved the essence of their physical natures before mixing with the Spanish conquerors. The cranium dominating found in these regions of the north of Africa east of the Cro-magnon type, homo sapiens. Cro-magnon and the homo sapiens populated the Mediterranean basin, the north of Africa includes, and Europe, while the négroïde type dominating was found only in the Sub-sahariennes regions. However here it is about the population living on the shores of the Mediterranean and refers at one time much more recent (3000 including 2000 BC and 2000 AC) and whose ancient Egyptians depicted already Lebus (old name of I Mazighen) like white with the clear eyes. Inter alia the figures found in the tomb of the Pharaon Seti I in 1820 by Minutoli, illustrate it clearly and come to support the thesis of the caucasoïde type ancestors of Berber at least 3000 years BC. Ici one sees clearly that the four Libyans + the Syrian are represented in white, the caucasoïde type. Figures on the tomb of Seti I Of the left: four Lybian, a Nubian, a Syrian, an Egyptian One for which reason would wonder the artists who worked with the ornament of the tomb of this Pharaon represented these four Libyans in Caucasians if these Berber were of négroïde type? In addition the tests of ADN carried out on the North-Africans reveal, that the dominant points are the Caucasian type. A small percentage is of négroïde type. Even the Tuaregs which could support the assumption of the négroïde type, are only one mixture white and black, this could be explained by the fact that these Tuaregs were more contacts some with the African black populations, considering their nomadic way of life and why they had practised a form of slave system "I khlan". If one refers to the culture and tradition like with the oral transmission, étymologiquement the "African" word which gave thereafter its name to the entire, African continent or Aferkhan or Averkhan or Aberkhan, is the word by which the Berber Caucasians designated the foreigner of black color and which came from the regions of the south Averkhan, Aferkhan or Aberkhan dependently of where it is marked. Why if they had the same color the Berber ones these foreigners come from the Sub-Sahara would name "the blacks"? The Hamito-Semitic origin of the Berber ones The terms Semite and Hamite were proposed for the very first time in 1781, by Ludwig Schlozer in Eichhorns "Repertorium" vol. VIII (Leipzig), by Eichhorn, the name returned in the general use (its "Einleitung in das Alte Testament") became a technical term adopted since 1787. Taking the bible like a reliable support reference frame, certain fanatics affirm that the people of the Middle-East called Sémites are the descendants of Sem, one of wire of Noah, who would be white (from which the Hebrews would go down, Araméens, the Syrians, the Philistines, the Arabs, living the country of Raising whose biblical name is called "table of the Nations"). As for Hamites they would be the descendants of Ham the other wire of Noah, who would be black, and from which would descend Phéniciens, the Egyptians (Berber includes), the Somali, the Ethiopian ones, the Nubians and the people of the Sub-Sahara, these various people lived the countries of Canaan, Mizrahim, Qush and Could. Canaan would correspond to current Liban/Syrie, Mizrahim in Egypt, Cush in Nubie or Sudan and Could would seem to refer to a country that the former Egyptians called Punt which would probably extend as far as Ethiopia or Somalia. If Sem were white and Ham one wonders of which color was black was Noah? This completely unfounded theory and misses the serious one is unacceptable. The terms Semite and Hamite are given wrongfully and wrongfully to a group of people who are roughly related in their languages but not necessarily of the same ethnic origin. These two terms entered the use at the end of the 18th century and which became standard technical terms today without any valid historical origin. These two terms were adopted and used in a barbarian way without indicating the true ethnicity of each group. I Mazighen were never asserted as being of Hamitique descent having Ham for ancestor. The Berber ones are a very mixed group today. In north on Mediterranean banks, they are clear of skin the Caucasian type is dominating and more one descends towards the Sub-sahariennes borders the obscured skin, certainly had with the interbreeding.
Joined: Apr 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 962 Location: Oz
Re: Afrocentrism (hannibal's movie) « Reply #4 on Jun 5, 2004, 8:24am »
Yes, the Americans are odd. How would they like Benjamin Franklin being portrayed by a Chinese man or Lewis and Clarke played by Mexicans? I am sure that they wouldn't like it or find it believable. Everytime I see a negro playing some famous Egyptian person I think that. It is not believable or worthy of watching. It is poor trash. I have nothing against Denzel Washington, but he is not the actor to portray Hannibal.
Re: Afrocentrism (hannibal's movie) « Reply #6 on Jun 5, 2004, 11:03am »
Totally. As the American population becomes 50% non-white minorities, you'll see even wierder stuff e.g. Churchill played by an Indian. Well that's f*cked up, but so is this Hannibal thing. He wasn't negroid.
Re: Afrocentrism (hannibal's movie) « Reply #7 on Jun 7, 2004, 9:51am »
You wanna laugh? hehehe enter here... I´m talking about it with some murons in this forum. Read until the page 3, it´s really funny. Helps are welcome.
Re: Afrocentrism (hannibal's movie) « Reply #10 on Jun 7, 2004, 10:31pm »
why not? John Wayne did.
These days though, more accuracy in representation of race is demanded then back then.Its more important. I wish more accuracy in all historical situations was wanted.
Today for someone as dark as Denzel to play Hannibal is irresponsible.
Re: Afrocentrism (hannibal's movie) « Reply #12 on Jun 7, 2004, 11:02pm »
I think the EU film industry should join and make a series of films about American History.
Jackie Chan as General Lee, Denzel as Lincoln, Emir Kusturica should direct, with a lot of Gypsy extras as confederacy soldiers and the Swedish soccer representation as the black slaves.
That would teach them americans not to mess with European heritage
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 311 Location: ginoville
Re: Afrocentrism (hannibal's movie) « Reply #13 on Jun 8, 2004, 12:46am »
WTF! Denzel and Vin Diesel playing Hannibal Barca? These guys are good playing their little Training Day and Fast and the Furious movie roles but you can't throw them in for any movie role.
The best actors that come to mind to play hannibal are Antonio Banderas or Hugh Jackman.
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 208 Location: London
Re: Afrocentrism (hannibal's movie) « Reply #14 on Jun 8, 2004, 5:59am »
America's film industry sells the idea that the facts of European history just don't matter so long as the entertainment is good. If you protest, say, that it was the British who cracked the Enigma codes, not the Americans, you're told that it is only a film, not an academic treatise.
Awar's idea is great, but it lacks the anachronistic element present in say, Braveheart. So how about the true story of how the Spanish pilgrim fathers arrived in America and built the railroads despite having to fight a range-war with Japanese cowboys led by a Jewish Davy Crocket? Maybe the pilgrim fathers could be led by Cameron Diaz and fall in love with Billy Crystal as Crocket?
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